Not to argue merits or demerits of the Dover case, but to pose a question regarding the disposal of human remains in the civilian sector: How do hospitals, for example, dispose of medical waste resulting from routine (?) procedures such as amputations?

I know that I was quite comfortable with the information that I was provided prior to deployment regarding the potential repatriation of my remains in separate packages.

I was given the option of choosing whether, in the event of my death, once a portion of my remains had been returned to my family, any remains subsequently discovered or recovered could either be: (a) packaged and returned to my family, or (b) disposed of by the military. The briefer carefully prompted soldiers to imagine whether we'd want our loved ones to receive shipment after we were already gone and buried, months or years after the fact.

I chose option B, but had no expectation that those other parts would require ceremonial or religious treatment--only that they be disposed in a medically / environmentally safe manner.

For me, then, the potential issue at hand is not (merely?) desecration of human remains, but gross and systemic incompetence in the disposal of hazardous medical waste.

The problem with this suggestion is that the practice of treating subsequently identified portions as medical waste is that the practice was changed in 2008 before either the Secretary or the Chief were in office. Seems a bit bizarre to me to fire someone for something that was ended before they even started their jobs.

What is also missing from the piece is that it was the Air Force(not OSC) that did the investigation in response to the whistleblowers, and it was this investigation that substantiated much of what was alleged. And the Air Force took some pretty serious corrective action in addressing the deficiencies identified by the whisleblowers even before the report was made public. I find it instructive that in most press accounts, the whistleblowers prasied the current Dover leadership and stated that the problems they had identified had been addressed to their satisfaction.

In answer to Charle Sherpa, the pre-2008 practice was consistent with how human portions were treated by most medical examiners. That being said, I think that the Air Force was wise to change the practice in 2008 to have a more dignified burial at sea.

I think AZB has highlighted some pretty good points. I have received AF Mortuary training and visited the port mortuary, many of my Airmen worked in the personal effects center and I can tell you it is a mission the AF takes very seriously. It is a tough job for obvious reasons, but I think it is difficult for the average person to imagine the amount of trauma that many of the remains have been through. The losing of body parts was inexcusable, but the removal of the Marines arm that caused all the hub bub...I think the AF made the right call. We go through the ceremony of the burial/funeral for those left behind not for those who perished. In my opinion, to quitely remove the arm, dispose of it in an accepted fashion, and let the family see their son in his dress uniform in the coffin is better than going to that grieving parent/spouse and telling them "your son died in such a horrible fashion his body is little burnt/disfigured to the point we can't fit him in the casket without hacking him up". Which is the better service to the family? The folks at Dover are faced with challenges like that all too often. This issues with the parts that were disposed off via creamation and dumping is being way overblown in my opinion. Like Charlie mentioned above the member and the family can both choose to be notified if additional parts of found and they can make the decision on the disposition of those remains.

My son's remains passed through Dover in 2005.

If phyical elements of him, separated by autopsy reasons, were medically disposed in the alleged manner, I will still praise the staff at Dover. I do not expect, nor will I seek, some explanation letter from Dover regarding this matter. If procedures of accountability of remains was a problem as claimed by the original whistleblowers, I'm satisfied that proper changes have occured. It was a dumbshit allowance for cremains to go to the landfill vice Arlington or at sea, but that too has been fixed.

As THATGUY states, there are difficult decisions that must be made by Dover and time is of a huge essence.

My sons remains were not him. There are varied faith believers among the KIA families. Mine is just one opinion. My belief is that remains and cremains are but symbols of our losses. The essence of the warrior is the soul. No IED, RPG or 7.62 round can destroy or dispose of the soul.

No one needs to be harsely punished for what happened at Dover over 6 years ago. The job performed by the Dover staff is accomplished under inordinate stress. I thank them for what they do.

I only wish that the intensity of call for the heads of Dover mortuary staff be directed where it should go--the deciders of war in Iraq. Lets quit attempting to justify our transgressions by punishing those ordered into fulfilling their oaths by those who foolishly and immorally brought on the war.

Thanks to all for your thoughtful posts...especially GSF. As a father, my heart goes out to you. I put the remains of over 100 young people on C-17s for the return flight home, and I pictured my son in the box everytime.

Secretary Gates required us to move heaven and earth to try and deliver remains to Dover within 48 hours of death to give morticians a chance to make the remains viewable. He thought it was important for families to be able to see their loved one's remains and say goodbye. In context, hardly anybody without a 747 of their own makes it to Afghanistan in 48 hours...it's just too damn far. I'm sure the Dover staff was under similar time pressure to make decisions with rapidly deteriorating remains. I'm sure they made mistakes. I'm glad I didn't have their jobs.

I think I'll wait and read the investigation reports instead of the news articles.

BLUF: The Air Force should lose the Dover mission and have either the Army or Navy take over the mission.

I am currently a Marine Corps reservist assigned to the Personnel Retrieval and Processing Company. It is our mission to recover and return our fallen brothers and sisters. I have deployed with my unit to Iraq and Afghanistan. As part of my training, I spent 4 days at Dover assisting the Air Force reservists and civilian personal receiving, processing and returning fallen heroes.

Here is some background on the improper disposal issues.

"Partial" remains are portions that become detached from the fallen service member's body. The correct term for the "partial remains" is disassociated portion.

The vast majority of the time, we are able recover and ship the body and all disassociated portion together. Sometimes it is not possible to recover the body and all disassociated portions at the same time. If a disassociated portion is recovered after the fallen service member's body is evacuated and those portions are sent to Dover for DNA based identification.

As part the Casualty process, the service member's family is asked if disassociated portions are recovered later how they want disassociated portions handled.

If the family doesn't want to disinter the body and rebury the fallen with the disassociated portion, Dover was supposed to cremate the portion and bury the ashes in dignified manner.

Currently that means burial at sea, a proper method in my opinion. Another method would be to collect the ashes, place them in one coffin and bury those disassociated portions in a national commentary.
Throwing the ashes of a disassociated portion of a fallen American into a landfill is not a dignified, reverential and respectful choice.

I am pretty angry about this horrible situation and the Marines in my unit are equally pissed. We take our mission to recover and return our fallen brothers very seriously and work damn hard to do it right every time.

Again, I would like the see the USAF fired from Dover and the Navy or Army given the mission.

Some additional information from an earlier report on the failure by the USAF leadership and GS types at Dover.

Summary of the facts
Lost portions (body parts) that were awaiting ID via DNA remains
Poor inventory controls of portions
Mishandling of a TB infected remain
Reusing cardboard boxes to ship fetal remains from Europe
Waiting months (years?) to notify family members of the issues
Falsified records
Attempting firing of employees for cooperating with the probe
Giving testimony that was “wholly inconsistent with the facts.”

The Air Force Response
The USAF IG says they were mistakes but not a big deal

Office of Special Consul (Federal Watch dog) Response:
The Office of Special Counsel says it was an epic screw up

OSC press release
The Office of Special Counsel confirmed four disclosures by multiple whistleblowers of serious misconduct at the U.S. military's Port Mortuary in Dover, Delaware, which is run by the U.S. Air Force. The OSC mandated that the Air Force investigate the allegations. The Air Force investigation confirmed most of the whistleblower's factual allegations but it nonetheless failed to admit wrongdoing. The Air Force did, however, respond positively by changing numerous practices at the mortuary.

Special Counsel's Conclusion
As discussed above, several of the Air Force's findings are not supported by the evidence presented and thus do not appear reasonable. These findings demonstrate a pattern of the Air Force's failure to acknowledge culpability for wrongdoing relating to the treatment of remains of service members and their dependents. Despite the failure to accept accountability with to certain allegations, the Air Force has taken substantial corrective actions to address the findings and issues brought to light through this investigation. As noted, however, I am concerned that the retention of the individuals responsible for serious violations of rules and regulations, gross mismanagement, dishonesty, and misconduct sends an inappropriate message
to the workforce.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204190704577026131670304426.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5

http://www.osc.gov/documents/press/2011/pr11_19du.pdf

http://www.osc.gov/FY2012/Scanned/10-04 DI-10-2151, DI-10-2138 and DI-10-2734/Analysis.pdf

http://www.osc.gov/FY 2012 A.html

Semper Fi

Monk

DISCLAIMER:
These are my personal feelings on the matter and not the opinion or policy of the Marine Corps or DOD. No need to call up General Amos or Secretary Panetta.

Lest anyone contribute to the spread of this bit of apocrypha, there's no evidence save the claim of one biographer that Eisenhower ever drafted any such thing.

Really, Hunter, you can blame things on Congress without enlisting the fabricated aid of a dead president.