Not really, men have almost always thought more with their little head than their big one.

The military's Puritanism is unsurprising, in light of this country's roots. What is surprising is how it manages to combine this Puritanism with the most depraved libertinism (the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell comes to mind,) with predictably convoluted and hypocritical results. You can have unlimited homosexual relations, but not if you're married to a woman, or with your subordinates-that's immoral! No word as of yet as to whether adultery committed by those who are in same-sex marriages will be prosecuted by the military once same sex marriage is federally recognized. My guess? Doubt it-they will just look the other way, as they've done with high-ranking lesbians for as long as I can remember. The only consistent position would be for the military to declare that it has no interest whatsoever in the sexual behavior of its members, but the Puritanical streak prevents that.

Meanwhile, we're busy losing a war. I posit that while the General's behavior was immoral, it is much more immoral to spend resources on this kind of bullshit which could be turned towards actually, you know, winning.

The guy was screwing his aide. Fraternization. With sufficient difference in rank, that's equivalent to rape, usually a felony even in non-Puritan nations. Puritanism?

Comparing that to rape is a reach, I have seen a lot of people use sex to attempt to get ahead and I have seen people who are just put in very austere and isolated environments fall for each other, it happens. It is human nature and comparing it to rape is beyond a reach really and only minimizes those cases of actual rape when you associate the above with the term. If the guy had threatened her with punishment if she did not have sex with him due to his position then that is one thing but what happened here is another. This is the unfortunate result of what happens naturally when you put people who are mutually attracted to each other in close, austere environments for extended periods of time. Heck, if you put two people together long enough who are just simply attracted to each other this can happen pretty easily, isolation and austerity is not even needed.
The whole gender integration movement and now with the addition of homosexuals will keep things like this going, it is what happens. It is one reason I am not a fan of gender integration, this is what is going to happen, it is nature.

Fraternization is such a wide concept that it is effectively meaningless. If an E-5 and an E-4 go have a beer, that's fraternization. So, pardon me if the f-word doesn't arouse a righteous indignation within me. As far as "rape"-the word loses meaning when a guy consensually sleeping with his boss and a guy going for a jog in the park when six dudes jump out of the bushes and forcibly penetrate him are described by the same word. And don't even try to bring the disparity in power into it-an officer is presumed (theoretically) to have the moral courage to refuse unlawful orders and to face death or maiming, but the second someone who outranks him makes a proposition, he's presumed to be so scared that he'll consent regardless of his wishes?

The bigger issue is this: you can't arbitrarily change morality with no consequences. Homosexuality has been considered shameful and immoral in Western culture for something like 3,000 years. Now, it's cool, because...I don't even know, because some guy we elected decided it would be politically convenient. Not surprisingly, dudes are gonna rewrite the rules for themselves.

Using the threat of force to gain sexual favor is rape. This guy had two stars. His aide had perhaps two bars. He controls her entire destiny and has sufficient power to bury her professionally. Force is not just implicit, it's intrinsic. And you two want to make it a romance? Or it's her fault? Or he's misunderstood? Or it's all because of this new-fangled gender equality thing?

Bruce Catton: "That wonderful world where the military mind steps from one undeniable truth to another until it arrives in a land of crippling nonsense." Fellows, you've arrived.

sorry, meant "most likely"

You guys think it's romantic fun. The UCMJ thinks it's criminal activity. Guess you must be right. But the sonuvabitch is still fired.

Wonder where you stand on statutory rape? Same game. No force. 'Consensual.' Fun, even. But a felony.

Fraternization is a military crime because of rank differential and the overwhelming power that brings into play. Power. Sex. Rape. Or, as you would have it, all just fine. Pigs.

That is what we said, you are right, I mean sure you make reached like that for comparisons all the time that are in outer space but at least you are consistent.

Frat is harshly enforced too and I have never advocated for it to be enforced that way, ever. ;) Why, with people like you setting the example thinking women are all wee little victims it is no wonder that the "experiment" is working so well.

Everything is black and white ducky, you compare statutory to this too? Sheesh....Ducky, really, come on dude. Oh, and guess what, if a 16 y/o kid sleeps with a 15 y/o kid it is statutory rape, think that is fair? What about an 18 y/o with a 17 y/o? Not only is your use of that crime not relevant it is also another example of a very narrow view you have of the world.

The UCMJ think frat is a crime and for good reason but it is not rape and you really do cheapen and almost mock actual rape when you compare the two. Honestly Ducky, you are just not living in the real world or at the very least you are choosing to ignore it. I know you got out before all of these things started to become a problem but you really have to get realistic and stop acting like consensual sex is not what happens, while it is poor leadership that allows it to happen it is not rape and women are not little lambs. If you think women are truly such little lambs who cannot make their own reasonable choices then how can you at the same time advocate full combat positions for them at the same time? Nature is powerful Ducky, ignoring it's effects is akin to burying your head in the sand, do not worry though, you are in good company since most of our GOs tend to do the same thing.

OK, students, let's try another analogy. I think if we do enough of them you will grasp this fundamental concept.

Pedophilia: it involves sex; force may not be a factor but overwhelming power is. But - here I apply your logic - if the kid says it's OK, it's OK. If the pedophile uses force, we agree that's bad. But if he just says 'bend over or no new bike for Christmas,' by your logic that's OK. Especially if the kid 'participates.'

In the American culture, fraternization is considered a serious offense. The military punishes it severely. So does American business - just ask Mark Hurd or Harry Stonecipher or countless others who've found instant unemployment for abusing their position and using their power to 'induce' an underling to screw them. Locally we just had the CEO of a Fortune 500 company suddenly retire and move to Montana after he was fond to be regularly knocking boots with the attendant on the corporate jet. Corporations don't go out of their way to sack a successful leader unless it's a really serious matter. Ditto the military.

You may opine this away all you choose, but really now, isn't blaming the victim low even for those ethically challenged?

How did pedophilia get into this? You think a 17 y/o and 16 y/o getting together is pedophilia? What world do you live in Ducky?

Frat is considered a serious offense in American Culture? Come on Ducky, that is simply not true, go look up the sexual harassment laws, not even close to what you are talking about. Go look up the percentage of relationship that start in the workplace and then try that line again. It is one thing to abuse your position it is another for it to happen and happen consensually. Your comparison of this to pedophilia has to be the biggest reach you have made yet Ducky, I do not think you are grounded in a realistic view of the world.

Who has said Frat is not wrong? I called you out on your use of the word rape in the same vein as frat and you now try to link pedophilia? Frat is serious but if you think it does not happen consensually, that people often do not care about the rank or that because one person is a rank above the other that it negates equal or at least some co-responsibility you are not, I repeat not being realistic. I almost laughed at the last line, "blaming the victim"? Yeah, ALL WOMEN are victims Ducky, they never consent unless it is under an alter and the men have of course done the proper courtship and gotten her fathers permission to hold her hand. Dude, tell me when this world comes to be the real one, would be fun to live in for a while. Obviously as much as you advocate for women to be fully included in all facets of the military you still think they cannot make their own choices or be held at fault when interacting with those evil, foul, dirty creatures called men ;)

Ducky, your thought process is the reason low morale and double standards will continue in the military, thank you for helping me illustrate my past posts and what I am sure will be my future posts on the subject. Senior leadership has never nor will ever enforce an equal standards.

...are like two immovable objects passing in the night. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
Tortured analogies and mis-representation of one another's arguments don't make for a good debate.

Bottom line: Adultery and Fraternization. General has to go, and the aide is probably in deep kimchee too. Probably wasn't rape, but it was a disproportionate amount of power on the part of the general and therefore makes it easy to go the Frat route - which I find to be far more serious than the adultery one.

Regardless, doing it in the office? Some people deserve to be punished just because they are stupid. If you show that kind of lack of judgment there, you'll show it in far worse places.

I do think it is funny that ESIII thinks New Jersey is an austere environment. I'll vouch and say some places are likely worse than Afghanistan. (Meadowlands I am looking at you).

No one said Frat was not bad, to include myself. I never said Jersey was austere and you know full well I was talking about what happens overseas and why it goes on so often. I understand it. I also stated that you do not need an austere environment, just look at my other posts. However, I do believe you could argue that Jersey is a hostile and isolated, austere environment. ;)

Here is the difference between me and Ducky, I back my posts up with facts, precedent and history. Ducky backs his up with a lot of passion and not much else, he then either resorts calling someone who does not agree with him a racist (see other article on subject), a women hater (he has done that before) or apparently now infers that you approve of rape and/or pedophilia.