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Posted By Thomas E. Ricks
Friday, November 11, 2011 - 7:04 AM
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We were sitting around CNAS this week jiving about a goofy list of best war movies that ran in the LA Times, and quickly drew up a counter-list of our 10 favorite movies about the military.
One concern I have is that some people will think watching a movie to commemorate veterans is disrespectful, or in bad taste. I think not. Why? Because Memorial Day is our time to remember the dead. Veterans' Day, by contrast, I think is to remember, thank, and welcome home those who served and survived -- and so is both a commemoration and a celebration. But I know others view this differently -- in fact, this came up last night at a discussion I was at a Johns Hopkins SAIS.
World War II
Saving Private Ryan
Worth it for the first and last half hours alone. The middle
is actually pretty typical stuff.
Band of Brothers
Actually a television miniseries, but still one of the best
war films ever made.
Twelve O'clock High
Striking especially for its clear-eyed depiction of combat
stress.
Downfall
Hitler in the bunker. Contains one of the most parodied
scenes ever. See if you can find it.
Irregular warfare
The Wind That Shakes
the Barley
The Irish civil war actually didn't last long or kill many
people, compared to anything else on this list. But this is a powerful tale of
how revolutions eat their own.
The Battle of Algiers
Also one of the best movies ever made, plain and simple.
Bonus fact: Some of the actors actually are Algerian fighters playing the roles
they played in real life.
Zulu
A film any young officer should watch. A clinic on the
effectiveness of massed firepower.
Cold War
Dr. Strangelove
Stanley Kubrick proves it possible to make a humorous film
about nuclear war. Slim Pickens tops it off -- and a young James Earl Jones makes
an appearance.
Vietnam War
Apocalypse Now
Long and uneven -- like a lot of great art.
Post-Cold War world
Black Hawk Down
About Mogadishu 1993. When Andrew Exum's wife wanted to know
what modern light infantry combat is like, he showed her this.
Good list, except for ‘Saving Pvt. Ryan’, the initial beach scene was riveting the rest was a over budget bad ‘B’ movie.
I would add:
‘All Quiet on the Western Front’, WW1, Superb!
‘Paths of Glory’, 1957 Excellent, WW1, realistic and very ine acting
‘Stalingrad’, 1993, horrific and better than ‘Enemy at the Gates’
‘Come and See’, 1985, the single most realistic war film ever made. Made in Russia and concerns a story of the partisans operating behind the 4th Panzer Army front in Belarus. They used live ammunition in making many of the combat scenes. Makes the war on the western front look pleasant by comparison.
‘Waterloo’, 1970, just watching the 92nd Gordon Highlanders led by their pipers advancing into D’Erlon’s Corps has to be one of the best 30 seconds in the history of war film.
Forgot one! 'Sink the Bismark', 1960, never tire of watching it.
The Screenwriter of "Sink the Bismarck!", Edmund North, shares a screenwriting credit for "Patton."
Walt
"The Odd Angry Shot" (Aussies in Vietnam); "84 Charlie Mopic" (Vietnam); "Savior" (Bosnian War); "Breaker Morant" (2nd Boer War); "No Man's Land" (Bosnian Civil War); "Come and See"; "King Rat"; "Catch-22"; "Empire of the Sun"; "The Pacific" (HBO miniseries).
When Trumpets Fade (an HBO movie) is worth a look.
Some good combat scenes, and an interesting look at the tension between replacement soldiers and combat veterans.
The Caine Mutinly, based on the 1951 Pulitzer Prize winning novel by Herman Wouk, is the still best military morality play out there.
It's got great star power with Humphrey Bogart as the mentally disordered Captain Queeg and José Ferrer as Jewish fighter pilot/lawyer LT Barney Greenwald.
As a judge advocate, it doesn't get any better than the grand finale court-martial scene.
Good choices, esp. "Wind that Shakes the Barley" &"Come and See"
Here's a few humble additions from my list o' faves:
Modern
- "Beaufort" (2007), Israeli troops at a remote outpost ~2000: This is a good watch, especially to see what a platoon dying up to the last day they occupy a remote post go through. Maybe it's timely (think Afghanistan)?
- "Blessed by Fire/Iluminados por el fuego" (2005): This flick shows the 1982 Falklands war from the Argentinian side. A non-spoiler tease - it wasn't just the Brit gunfire and attacks that were brutal for the Argie troops.
WW2
- "Black Book" (2006) and "Soldier of Orange" (1977): Both of these films were directed by Paul Verhoeven of "Starship Troopers" fame. Nothing like the sci-fi flicks, though. He was a young kid in WW2, and probably heard the stories first hand while the scars were still fresh. The films show WW2 from the Dutch perspective, both via the resistance and several students.
- "Army of Shadows" (1969): A gritty, brutal view of the WW2 French resistance, warts and all.
Irregulars
- "Intimate Enemies" (2007): This shows the French fight in Algeria in the bled outside the cities. It would make a good "war flicks night" backstop to the urban-focused "Battle of Algiers".
I always liked Three Kings and M*A*S*H because they had a sense of humor that captured some of the goofiness which most war movies leave out in favor of grim combat.
Also, I like Thin Red Line and Jarhead because they captured the sense of separation from home and being overseas at war.
"Go Tell The Spartans"
Walt
There is something about "Go Tell the Spartans" (1978) that manages to captures the ethos of early advisory war in 1964. There are lessons in there for Afghanistan.
"Zulu" says a lot about what a well-trained unit can do in the face of overwhelming odds. The fact that it is a true story doesn't hurt. I watched in amongst an audience of 82nd Airborne soldiers. It was a polyglot group and it was an education to hear them only identify with their fellow soldiers. One young man said, "If I had been there with my M-60 ....." Background:
This action was at Rorke's Drift, Wednesday 22- Thursday 23 January, 1879, when some 150 soldiers defended a supply station against some 4000 Zulus, aided by the Martini-Henry rifle 'with some guts behind it'.
Since the Victoria Cross was instituted by Queen Victoria in 1856, only 1357 have been awarded. At Rorke's Drift, eleven Victoria Crosses were awarded. Seven to the 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot, one to the Army Medical Department, one to the Royal Engineers, one to the Commissariat and Transport Department and one to the Natal Native Contingent. Pretty amazing and encouragement to stick with the plan. In many ways it is the battle for Wanat.
"The Wind And The Lion" is a wonderfully romantic film and someone ensured that the Marine weapons were absolutely authentic to the era of the film. It makes the excellent point that if you have to fight, it might as well be for Candice Bergen. Some great quotes at: < http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073906/quotes >
Bridge over the river Kwai
The Bedford Iincident
We Were soldiers
Veterans Day is not for honoring war
How about great veterans movies.
"The Best Years of our Lives" is a famous post-World War II movie that is a must see.
For something more recent "The Wounded Platoon" is great, although depressing. You can watch it free on-line.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/woundedplatoon/view/
When you see stories of combat vets that can't get help in the news (CNN's Gupta did a story) no one knows the real issue. If a GI returns home and gets a dishonorable discharge, the VA cannot provide help, even if he served four combat tours. If a GI gets a general discharge, the VA can help, but only if he served two years active duty. This is federal law, its not the VA's fault.
There are thousands of war vets that come home and get into trouble, then get kicked out and are turned away from the VA. I think once a GI sets foot in a combat zone, his VA health benefits should vested for life.
I always amazed that there are people who have never seen this film. Maybe the best... And your point about Veteran's Day is well taken.
One might even submit that it's downright disrespectful of veterans, who have experienced mankind at its worst, to honor war. One might point to the fact that what we celebrate as Veterans Day started as Armistice Day, which celebrated the END of a war that history now regards as an utterly pointless waste of many millions of lives that merely sowed the seeds of future conflict. If one was so inclined.
"War is like love, it always finds a way"
Vous etes soldats, pour mourir, et je vous envoie ou l’on meurt! (You are soldiers, in order to die, and I'm sending you to where one dies!) ; |
WW I: Stanly Kubric's Paths of Glory."
WW II: Sam Peckinpah's "Cross of Iron" (command at sea - "Away All Boats")
Korea: "Pork Chop HIll."
Viet-Nam: Pierre Schoendoeffer's 65 minute documentary: "The Anderson Platoon" ("Apocalypse Now" is for sci fi fans). . .ain't no better.
Toujour Fidele
Ooooh............CoI is a great movie.
The DVD I got from netflix recently matched the VHS version I got in 1983.
I read some years ago online that the DVD version had been really chopped up. I guess they did it over.
Walt
The D.I. (only because I was in it. Still love looking at that 18 year old badass).
You got started on the right foot
instead of left. . .didn’t you? You finally see the bright light. . .the guiding light. . .you got the vision now? Get out'a hear (have a good weekend)!
My guess would be that almost no one who regularly visits Ton’s site has ever watched the Soviet film by Elem Klimov ‘Come and See’. You can get the DVD from Netflix and yes it is subtitled. When we discuss war films we generally have a standard image in mind cultivated though eighty years or so of American and western European motion pictures. ‘Come and See’ breaks that conventional mold like a baseball bat on ones head.
Here is a review by Roger Ebert: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100616/REVIEWS08/100619989/1023
I should also have included ‘Lawrence of Arabia’, a masterpiece by David Lean and based on one of the most extraordinary characters of the 20th Century.
overrated, overrated, overrated
Apocalypse Now is indeed uneven - and the dull (and strange) parts overwhelm the good ones
Saving Private Ryan is, as noted, largely cornball fluff sandwiched between two great battle scenes
Black Hawk Down has some great scenes as well - and who am I to argue with Ranger Exum - but I found it not true to the book at all, which irked me, and moreover, filled with exposition to ensure the viewer could make sense of the action.
How about Platoon and The Longest Day?
My goodness I forgot, those of us who like naval dramas 'Tora, Tora, Tora'! A great concept in making a war film by both Japanese and American film units.
Surprised this had not been listed
Some great films listed here. I'll add my favorite.
Not an "old war movie" per se but as old as some listed above:
Edward Zwick's "Glory."
The story of the Massachusetts 54th.
In my humble opinion one of the best movies (of any genre) made.
Very fine soundtrack to boot!
Directed by Bernard Tavernier. The movie I think of when I hear the term 'cheese-eating surrender monkey', along with all the Rue des Martyrs I've seen all through France.
I'm surprised no one ever mentions Hamburger Hill as a top Vietnam war film. Still one of my favorites.
I've thought a lot about this over the years...
And taught a US History film course. The two films that I always find have the most impact on people who have never seen them before are "The Best Years of Our Lives" and "They Were Expendable." Both films take the time to develop characters the audience comes to know and then through those explain both the sacrifice and pain of those that serve a cause and the price they and their families pay for that service.
Now my all-time favorite war movie is "Kelly's Heroes." It was one of the only films my WWII vet father ever took me to see, and perhaps the reason I wound up a somewhat off-beat armor officer.
Many on this list I agree with
And a couple I haven't seen but make a note to get to.
"Downfall" is incredible for the provocation of thought induced by the character relationships and sentiments.
"Zulu" for its excellent depiction of Imperial slaughter, heartbreaking courage of the warriors and, of course, a superb Welsh male-voice choir.
Not a movie, strictly speaking but the Blackadder Goes Forth series is a wonderfully caustic satire on the sheer madness and waste of WW1.
"The Beast" is the single best tank movie ever filmed. Of course, it's a Russian tank and tank crew, but there's much to learn about the Afghan fight here too.
Oh, and "Patton." How can you not love "Patton" the movie, even if you didn't like Patton the man?
I was thinking about "The Beast". A very unusual, very personal kind of story. I don't think I've ever seen anything that reduces war to this level of human existence.
Bradley's aide Chet Hansen was interviewed for the "History vs Hollywood" episode on "Patton". He said that Scott nailed his portrayal of Patton.
Walt
Funny that no one mentioned 'Patton'
In our discussion. I've seen it several times. Fine movie. (Good screenwriter, too.) And its producer was an aide to George C. Marshall during WWII. I just with George C. Scott had done the movie in Patton's real voice, high and squeaky, instead of as something out of Dr. Strangelove.
Also, yes, Best Years of Our Lives. Good film and we should have included it on our list.
Thanks,
Tom
The Australian "The odd Angry Shot", one of the very few movies that acknowledges armed men in the military are neither cheery jokers nor stern robots. The Australian unit in this Vietnam-era story included characters who spoke scathingly of the reasons they were there (exactly like the young grunts referring to their commander in chef as "the shirker" in more recent years). The movie also speaks of the tedium of awaiting action, the inconsequentiality of much small-unit combat, and the awkwardness of going Home to a civilian population that scales its lives on terms now foreign to a vet. A story some millennia old.
Some of my buddies are in it.
Walt
I thought that SPR was a perfectly good film. The beach assault was awesome.
Recall that it was nominated for Best Picture, losing out to "Shakespeare In Love."
Walt
Surprised that it didn't make the list, especially considering who put it together.
"Generation Kill" has an awesome movie firefight. Seems like it is in the episode "Never Pet A Burning Dog". It's where they approach that bridge and drive into a kill zone.
In the book, seems like the reporter says, "What is wrong?", and Sgt. Colbert says, "We just drove into a kill zone."
That's where they got their only medevacked WIA.
Walt
In making the list we actually excluded
We actually excluded movies made about CNASties, such as "Generation Kill."
Cheers,
Tom
"Das Boot" made me feel claustrophobic.
We win!
Walt
"Courage Under Fire" is a great movie.
Walt
Was good.
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