Posted By Thomas E. Ricks Share

I'm planning on giving this blog a rest for the month of August. I plan to be back up on Thursday, September 1.

Until then, please feel free to use this item to post comments for discussion. Be nice.   

Wikimedia Commons

 

BEARCAT

6:40 PM ET

August 1, 2011

That's SO European

Wow, taking August off, that is positively French!?!?

We hope you didn't turn your dogs loose on the street and leave the family matriarch with no AC!?!?

 

TOM RICKS

7:17 PM ET

August 1, 2011

Actually

Actually more Puritan than French: I'm planning to use the month of August to focus on my current book project.
Best,
Tom

 

HUNTER

7:38 PM ET

August 1, 2011

Tom

If you are stopping by AHEC, you know how to reach me. Please do.

 

TJ LUCIER

9:21 AM ET

August 15, 2011

What's the "working title" of your next opus magnus, Tom?

OPSEC aside, you can us, your loyal readers!

 

RUSO

7:55 AM ET

August 25, 2011

we also like July to take our

we also like July to take our month off in Europe. Much cheaper and less hot than August!

 

WALKING WOUNDED

6:48 PM ET

August 1, 2011

Casualty of war? -access of deployed troops to blogs.

I learned via phone that a family member in Afghanistan is unable to use the internet over there, except thru the military channel, which prevents him from buying online books. Even the occasional phone calls to immediate family seem to necessitate use of code words.

Many of my fellow citizens are probably unaware that WW2 troops were strictly forbidden to keep journals, and all personal mail from overseas was 100% heavily censored. One worthwhile war memoir I stumbled across, Sampan Sailor, was based on notes written into the margins of a Bible. My dad kept clippings on the 8th Air Force, but the scrapbook notes added much later don't tell me much about what he was feeling, as combat air crew.

The upshot, then and now, is that primary source material, such as the heartfelt letters that Ken Burns Civil War series drew from, just don't exist in large numbers.

It's been said that the first casualty of war is truth. But in 10+ years of war we forget that censorship is an ongoing, active accomplishment. And propaganda is a major specialty, with it's own ops plan, practiced at all levels in every service. Our citizen soldiers lose the freedoms and rights that they're supposedly defending over there.

What do you suppose happened to Pat Tilman's personal papers?

 

VICTOR

3:04 AM ET

August 2, 2011

Untrue

Not sure where you're getting your information, but I wouldn't count on it. I did two deployments in Iraq and there is no censorship or control of personal calls or email.

Yes, military NIPR networks prevent you from going to some sites that the Commo folks have decreed are dangerous to the network and would make them vulnerable to cyberattack. But it doesn't prevent you from using basic email and those types of things, and no one is censoring what you say.

Moreover, all soldiers (at least that I saw) had access, usually 24-hour access, to free MWR centers with free phones and internet access - completely unmonitored and uncontrolled. These, and military NIPR, were temporarily "blacked out" when there had been a fatality in your immediate unit, to prevent the next of kin from finding out through the rumor mill. But once they had been officially and properly notified, usually less than 24 hours later, the networks were re-opened.

Pat Tillman's personal papers? I doubt he had any. What soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan keeps "personal papers"? None that I know of. The closest things anyone there has are their private email accounts and their Facebook page. So no, I don't think there is a vast military/industrial/governmental conspiracy to keep his "papers" from getting out, as you clearly are implying.

The part about WWII censorship is basically true - letters (the only real form of communication for troops overseas) were censored by at least one officer along the way to make sure nothing compromising security (probably interpreted quite broadly) was revealed.

 

WALKING WOUNDED

3:25 PM ET

August 3, 2011

Tillman's missing journal

Victor, thx for sharing your personal experience. My impression is that things have ratcheted down a bit, which wouldn't be surprising, given a wikileaks enlisted source, and all that came before, the abu grab type stuff.

You're welcome to your doubts, but quick google search will show a lot of support for history buff Tillman keeping a journal. In the words of his biographer Krakauer, interviewed in the WSJ:

"You don't normally see the feverish manipulation of information that you saw with Tillman. Instantly, everyone knew it was friendly fire. But within hours, by sworn testimony, a move was made to give him a Silver Star. That's not typical in a friendly fire situation. All the forensic evidence, including his uniform and journal, were burned. This was an extraordinary case of manipulation of public perception, which is what the Bush administration specialized in."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574406732146520274.html

 

OLDLOAD

7:18 PM ET

August 3, 2011

WW II Journals

Some outposts have very limited comms but larger bases have plenty of access; my Marine nephew recently returned from Afghanistan and managed a few very generic updates on Facebook.

The "no journals" rule was quite often ignored, for which historians are grateful. The classic, also scribbled in a Bible, id E.B. Sledge's "With The Old Breed. Another outstanding example is Pacific War Diary by James J. Fahey
http://www.amazon.com/Pacific-War-Diary-1942-1945-American/dp/061840080X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312398283&sr=1-1 and then there is "The GI Journal of Sergeant Giles." There was one (and I can't recall the title now) written in real time and kept in the unit safe between bombing missions. As I recall, it took him about a year to get it "declassified" after the war.
Even many of the letters were quite informative, so long as they chose their words carefully and were written after the fact; I had access to several sets in writing my book on the CBI and they added lots of first-hand details.

I am depressed about how the level of paranoia and willingness to believe the worst seems to be increasing...

 

WALKING WOUNDED

12:30 AM ET

August 4, 2011

cleanup before returning fallen comrades personal items

OLDLOAD, thx for the reading suggestions. Selling a second war, another long one, on a false connection to 9/11, that was hugely corrosive to our national tradition of trust, checks and balances. Something to remember when the fife and drumbeat for the next land war in asia starts up.

My reading of many war memoirs includes a ritual where battle buddies and superiors make sure that inappropriate or hurtful items (extramarital letters, scalps, whatever), don't get sent home. It's not a far stretch for the journal of a celebrity casualty, one who's friendly fire death was being spun as a heroic charge into a hail of enemy fire, to get command attention and pyro-editing. In Cpl. Tillman's case, his Ranger brother, present at some distance at the time of the FF accident, was sent home with the body, unable to help decide what to keep or toss.

The volumes of investigation records show forensic evidence was burned, patrol com logs were altered, the Ranger Platoon told not to discuss the case, then dispersed. All of which points towards intention, even experience, in conducting a coverup.

Our command desire to control the story, remove the red from the color photos, that didn't go away after WW2, or Viet Nam. Controlling the story, servicie image, is an integral part of how we fight wars in this new American century.

 

ERIC_STRATTONIII

6:56 PM ET

August 12, 2011

@walking wounded

The Internet is totally open, they block access to some sites (porn, etc) but that is it. The Tillman thing is not like that, we got the full debrief from our side and another from the brother, it was a tragedy of errors, immaturity and idiocy by some of the men directly involved, a desire to rush the information out as part of the IO campaign before all the info was in and then a CO not accepting responsibility. No conspiracy, a lot of basic mistakes made and forgetting that initial contact reports are never accurate. It was that simple and that tragic.

 

WALKING WOUNDED

7:37 PM ET

August 12, 2011

My guy can't buy internet books...

but maybe his service and situation operate under different rules, over there.

Re Tillman affair, I only know what I read, and that tells me Pat and his family have a right to feel abused by how his name was attached to a false (not mistaken) story. The Presidents office got the wave-off, to not use 'into enemy fire' within 24-48 hours.

Weeks later, the false story (not mistaken) inflated into a Silver Star citation was still being used, in public, with congressmen and senators (candidate McCain no less) in attendance and on the platform. That's the kind of (excrement deleted) deception that erodes confidence in our gov't.

 

ERIC_STRATTONIII

7:46 PM ET

August 13, 2011

Family should be ticked off

Family should be upset but never said they shouldn't, just like with everything else that happens in combat, first reports are never spot on, it snow balled and they tried to get the initial story out first due to it fitting a great PR story but no conspiracy.

 

WALKING WOUNDED

6:59 PM ET

August 30, 2011

SNAFU includes the likelihood of conspiracy after the fact

I see at least two active and collusive alterations of the story. If they are normal, then they also indicate practice at the craft, a breach of trust with the fallen, a callous acceptance of info ops collateral.

The first is at the operational level, where the tac-operations command element was covering up their part of pushing a compromised recon mission forward, over the objections of the platoon LT. The LT was wounded and isolated while deal was being put together to protect the major. The second occurred at the department and level, where some were briefed in to the charade, riding the story while not owning it, until after the funeral.

McChrystal had to know he had forwarded a false Silver Star citation to Washington. Sen. McCain, the party candidate-in-waiting, was clearly pissed that he had been left to vouch for a story that anyone in the know could guess ws going to come unravelled.

 

KUNINO

9:51 PM ET

August 1, 2011

Look for Peter Pinney

An Australian private fighting the Japanese in the Pacific for a lengthy period. This was not in the US campaign of invading islands, cleaning them up, moving on to the next island. Poor in men and materiel, some Australians spent years in jungle fighting akin to land battle, rather than island-hopping. Pinney, illegally, kept and concealed a diary for most of his time in New Guinea and Bougainville. There's a Pinney website, www.dustonmyshoes.com.

Some stories from that theater sear the mind. Not associated with Pinney was another Australian obituarized during the last decade was the coastwatcher spotted by the Japanese army while coming ashore to spend a lengthy term of hide-and-seek radio transmissions in hostile island territory. They shot his jaw off. He persisted with the landing, for several months hid successfully unable to eat in any normal sense of the word, broadcast frequently and accurately -- in Morse -- did not request early removal from his lone post. And lived to his eighties.

 

TYRTAIOS

10:06 PM ET

August 1, 2011

Saudi Arabia & the House of Sa'ud

The House of Sa'ud traces its original roots from the Anizah tribe that has habitually inhabited the area of the Nejad or highland, that is located in the central part of the Arabian Peninsula.

The name Saudi Arabia comes from the founder, Muhammad bin Sa'ud, also referred to as Ibn Sa'ud, who in the 1700s linked himself with his father-in-law, an ultraconservative religious leader named Muhammad 'Abd Al-Wahhab.

In the 1800s, the House of Sa'ud consolidated its leadership of most of the Arabian Peninsula, ruling from its traditional home in Diriyah, which is not too far from Riyadh. However, during that same time period, the Ottomans, concerned about a conservative power base on the peninsula, launched a military campaign which all but razed Diriyah, and although the city remains, it really hasn’t changed much since the battle.

The Sa’uds then relocated to Riyadh, but a struggle for leadership on the peninsula arose between them and their rivals there, the Al-Rashids who had allied themselves with the more powerful Ottomans, and were able to force the Sa'ud family out and into exile in Kuwait, having been offered refuge by the Sabah family, a close tie that exists to this day as a result (present day monarch, King Abudullah’s mother is an Al-Rashid and I believe her sister is married to an uncle of Bashar Asad of Syria).

It was during that time the Sa’uds were in Kuwait that a descendent of Ibn Sa'ud by the name of 'Abd Al-'Aziz bin 'Abd Al-Rahman Al Sa'ud was born around 1880, and it was Al-Aziz , at the age of 21, that set out from Kuwait to recapture all the lands taken from his family by the Rashids, which culminated in a battle in Riyadh in 1902 at the stronghold known as the Musmak fort, between the both tribes, ending with the Sa’uds as the victors over the Al-Rashids.

It is the victory of this regionally famous battle that really begins the modern Saudi Kingdom from which Al-Aziz began expanding by uniting the various tribes throughout the region to include the Hijaz mountainous area that holds the sites of Mecca and Medina controlled by the Hashemite tribe, under the House of Hashem. . .

To be continued

 

FG42

12:53 PM ET

August 2, 2011

A bit of levity today....

A bit of levity today.... For those of you who are tired of reading posts about heroic war dogs, see heart-wrenching story about a warrior cat:

youtube.com/watch?v=PXRX47L_3yE

 

GOLD STAR FATHER

1:55 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Marine

You have too much time on your hands. You need to play more golf or something...

 

FG42

2:34 PM ET

August 2, 2011

GSF, good advice, as always.

GSF, good advice, as always. Grabbing my clubs and heading out the door. But here's one more thing for you, which I found while surfing the Net this morning. Maybe you've seen it already, but it surely is wise and true. S/F!

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"

Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of the United States, 1945

 

GOLD STAR FATHER

3:36 PM ET

August 2, 2011

New Standard

I don't think the USMC really wanted anything to do with Afghanistan (land-locked) or Iraq (mostly land-locked)after the initial invasions, but the Big Guy spoke and the Commandant said "Yes Sir".

"I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all."
General James Mattis USMC, to tribal leaders in Al Anbar

 

TYRTAIOS

4:29 PM ET

August 2, 2011

re: GSF

Unfortunately, the Corps cannot be excused from fighting in these land-locked wars, although the previous CMC was keen to remove Marines from Iraq and return them to small unit actions they were more suited for in Afghanistan (I'm told Marines push out patrols more fequently than the other gun club does).

Probably the biggest obstacle the Marine Corps faces after exiting Afghanistan. . .and exit they must at some point. . .is implementing Operational Maneuver From the Sea, with technology that may be beyond grasp and/or practicality, compounded by its partner, the U.S. Navy, that has relinquished a portion of it’s forced entry capability and ability to deliver the Marines behind the horizon.

However, I believe in the aphorism that when the complex, sophisticated plans are not producing, try something simple, it will generally work.

 

GOLD STAR FATHER

4:32 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Try Something Simple...

Aye, hence my GEN Mattis quote.

 

WOMBAT

10:52 PM ET

August 2, 2011

NewStandard

When I was in Laos in the 60s, one of my jobs as a JO was to burn huge crates of surrender leaflets sent to us from Saigon. The leaflets said (in loose translation) "We are the U.S. Marines. We are your friends and want to help you. If you bring this leaflet to us we will protect you. If you don't, we will kill you."
We burned them because we didn't think them to be particularly useful.

 

GOLD STAR FATHER

12:10 AM ET

August 3, 2011

Leaflets

Leaflets seemed to have worked somewhat in SE Asia:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1967/sep-oct/brewer.html.

Gen Mattis' approach also had some success in al Anbar.

 

TYRTAIOS

2:06 PM ET

August 2, 2011

News you can't use

The second of two recent IBOPE Zogby International polls showed a sharp decline in the Obama administration’s favorability rating in the Arab world, i.e., Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan, where more than 90 percent of those surveyed said President Obama had failed to meet the expectations set by his speech at Cairo University (personal opinion on Lebanon is the majority Shi'a have probably aligned behind Iran?).

The first Zogby poll showed Arab approval of the U.S. in the Middle East has plummeted so drastically under Obama that it is now lower than it was during the presidency of George W. Bush.

Of course, U.S. approval ratings in the ME have been low for a long time, although Arab opinion of the U.S. rose a bit after 9/11; dropped with the invasion of Iraq; then again trended upward in many Arab countries when Obama was elected, but started waning by 2010.

Most analysts agree Obama is judged on his lack of progress and follow through primarily on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, but also the inconsistency in picking and choosing to support repressive ME regimes.

 

FG42

2:45 PM ET

August 2, 2011

It's a no-win situation for

It's a no-win situation for the US. No US president can resolve the Israeli-Palestinian issue without either (1) putting real pressure on the Israelis who think they have a strong hand and are not willing to negotiate, or (2) stepping back entirely and letting the Israelis and Palestinians duke it out, after which both sides will come to their senses. As for picking and choosing from among the "Arab Spring" countries, it's our "missionary" zeal that's caught up with us. We go around the world loudly preaching Democracy and Human Rights, even to the extent of speaking up right in Beijing or Cairo. People hear us and believe us. And then when they do rise up, we can't do much. Shades of Hungary 1956! Are we again stepping on our own d--k?

 

TYRTAIOS

3:13 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Information overload

Well, there is an upside, save for Lebanon, the majority of Arabs* felt Iran was meddling too greatly in Iraq specifically, and the ME region generally, giving a disapproval rating to Iran about the same as the U.S.

*Incidentally, how does one define an Arab? The Arab League defines an Arab as “a person whose language is Arabic, who lives in an Arabic speaking country, who is in sympathy with the aspirations of the Arabic speaking peoples." However, I note they grant the status to Somalia, and I know that Egyptian Coptic Christians don’t use the term Arab to describe themselves, although they speak Arabic.

Also, speaking of Egyptian Christians with a focus on news you can't use, the greater majority of Egyptians are Muslim obviously, and don't eat pork because of religious restrictions. But about ten percent of the population in Egypt is Coptic Christian. As a result, Egyptian pig farmers are overwhelmingly Christian and by virtue of that are Cairo's garbage collectors. : )

 

RYDDLE

4:06 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Using the time

I'll use the month to read Tom's Fiasco and The Gamble, on which I finally was able to get my hands on (no easy task outside the US).
@GoldStarFather Any way I could talk to you through email or something? ;)

 

RYDDLE

4:06 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Using the time

I'll use the month to read Tom's Fiasco and The Gamble, on which I finally was able to get my hands on (no easy task outside the US).
@GoldStarFather Any way I could talk to you through email or something? ;)

 

GOLD STAR FATHER

4:18 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Most Certainly

Tom, can you do the intermediary thing between Ryddle and me? RYDDLE, contact Tom at his email link above his photo on this page.
Regards.

 

TOM RICKS

5:11 PM ET

August 2, 2011

Yup

I'm working on the book but checking the comments every day.
Cheers,
Tom

 

TYRTAIOS

12:59 PM ET

August 3, 2011

Yemen, drones, & Ramadan

Several news sources have reported that Predator or Reaper strikes wacked 15 Al-Qa'idah (AQAP) fighters outside the Yemeni port city of Zinjibar. My source, Mr. Grapefruit tells us the strike was specifically in the town of al-Khamila.

One of several issues I have with these strikes is: you have a Yemeni military and government, albeit operating in the absence of President Salih right now, who incidentally, some Saudi sources say will not return to Yemen, that have always been in collusion with AQAP with their secret peace deals, etc. I question whether these 15 individuals killed were really AQAP or others from some militant group opposed to the current Sana’a regime, non-aligned with AQAP, but advocating for a country governed under a stricter tenet of Islam?

The “Yemen Post” stated the attacks weren't carried out by American aircraft, but rather by the Yemeni Air Force? Oh well, it's a moot point since covert operations are operations that are readily apparent but the entity and/or country conducting the operations usually remains unknown.

Mr. Grapefruit needs to get a bit closer to the action and gather more detail as to who is running our drone strikes in Yemen; the U.S. military or the CIA, who I happen to know are dealing with former Iraqi intel types that fled after our invasion, and were hired on by Salih for their expertise.

By the way, Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and has begun, with economic conditions in Yemen as they are, I would imagine the traditional family feasting after dark is fairly scanty.

 

FG42

1:56 PM ET

August 3, 2011

CIA out of control?

Interesting story in NYT, about some internal disagreement about timing of drone attacks into Pakistan. State wants CIA to use some common sense, but CIA continues march to its own drummer. For example, launching a strike just after Sen. Kerry completes a "fence-mending" mission. Is CIA out of control here?

nytimes.com/aponline/2011/08/02/world/asia/AP-AS-Pakistan-Drones-vs-Diplomacy.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=drone+cia+state&st=nyt

 

TYRTAIOS

2:25 PM ET

August 3, 2011

Low standard for collateral damange

Good newsworthy article!

I think part and parcel of the issue is that the Agency may have accepted a low standard for collateral damage and may view innocent individuals in the area of a strike killed worth the risk in moving ahead with perishable actionable intelligence; I am aware Air Force controlled strikes are looked at with a bit more scrutiny and the Agency had wanted to take full control of drone strikes in Yemen and Somalia . . . if they haven’t already.

This I do know: the Phoenix program in Viet-Nam by 1970, had become very depersonalized and indiscriminate, and it may be we are heading in that mindset direction again.

 

WALKING WOUNDED

6:39 PM ET

August 11, 2011

'rogue' ISI is capable of pushing MANPADS over into our war.

CIA may be angry and capable. But the islamists, and even nominally friendly Pakistani generals, are not without options to send us signals. They could go beyond harassing our supply lines and intel efforts their unstable country.

Other major players in this war, Russia, China, and Iran, might be happy to watch us bleed and despair. India also might benefit from the opposite effect, an angry bloody-nosed America, a wag-the-dog effect.

 

BEARCAT

2:34 PM ET

August 3, 2011

Rebel Libyan Commander Abdel Fattah Younes

T

What does Mr Grapefruit know about Libya?

Did you see that Rebel Commander Abdel Fattah Younes turned up dead in Libya the end of July? The rebels are like the French in North Africa in WW II, they spend more time scheming against each other than in fighting w the enemy!?!?!

 

TYRTAIOS

4:32 PM ET

August 3, 2011

Rebonjour Bearcat

Mister Bearcat, unfortunately, Signore Pomelmo, or Mr. Grapefuit if you please, knows pretty much squat; that is to say, butkus, zip, etc., about events up north in the Maghreb.

However, an old French para of the Gen. Massu mold I am acquainted with informs, probably by (unbelievably - gasp!) monitoring Twitter on Libyana Americana @Cyrenaican, and certainly by chatting up with certain thugs and other individuals between Marseille and Aubagne he knows, that just as I had predicted in a past post here, tribal tensions have risen in Libya, and there is evidence of internecine feuding as this dumb French Sarkozy, who dragged us by the nose, Libyan kerfunkle, with no political solution in sight continues (nice rant worked-in, uh?).

Anyway, this internecine tension surfacing may be the reason Gen. Younis was killed by other anti-crazy colonel rebels who had been dispatched to bring him in for a chat. An important point: I was told by my Grandfather, there are plenty of Indian scalps on other Indian’s lodge poles. . .or in other parlance, don’t get in a vehicle driven by those from another tribe with an age old grudge.

On another note, keep your eye on what’s going down in Mauritania. All this focus in Libya by our assets, has somewhat taken our eye off the bigger picture in the region and given Al-Qa'idah in the Maghreb some breathing room to expand their activities against American trained forces there, as well as acquire guns and ammo from looted arms depots, both in Libya and up from Yemen.

Now having shared this open source information, I am famished and heading to Zeke’s Drive-in, home of the best french fries this side of the pass. . .over.

 

JONESGP1996

8:27 AM ET

August 4, 2011

Another brigade commander fired?

Anyone heard anything about another Army brigade commander getting relieved? Perhaps it's related to the new Army policy of dumping so-called "toxic leaders."

 

RVN SF VET

4:11 AM ET

August 5, 2011

Detailed Article On Toxic Leadership Issue

< http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/07/army-wants-to-rid-ranks-of-toxic-commanders-073111w/ >

We never found out what happened to the hospitalized soldier from the first infamous run. That brigade commander had several things going for him and I think that he probably survived his mistake and may still have a future. If the division commander cared, he would be looking to see what this brigade commander was doing to improve the condition of his troops.

It is brutally hot down here in North Carolina right now and I'd be scheduling the heck out of the pools on post.

 

JIM GOURLEY

8:01 PM ET

August 4, 2011

82nd ABN Not-so-fun run?

On that note, I'm wondering what happened to the BDE CDR who took his troops for an en masse fallout-fest. It's been long enough to complete a 15-6. Anyone hear what the conclusions/recommendations were?

 

TOM RICKS

9:07 PM ET

August 4, 2011

82nd AB soldier died after run

The other day. It was a different bde.

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/08/01/1112628?sac=Mil

 

RVN SF VET

4:33 AM ET

August 5, 2011

Do You Live In Richmond, Virginia Or Nearby?

One of our most prolific participants has been wounded in OEF and is going through a course of rehabilitation at the Hunter McGuire VA Hospital in Richmond. He remains on Active Duty status. If you would like to visit him, please contact Tom and he can relay your availability to me.

He's probably reading this and I have not asked him if he wants visitors, but if you are up for it, I'll check directly with him. I suspect that some really good food would awaken his desire to meet some fellow Best Defense correspondents. The hospital food is OK, but amongst other things - it repeats every week. (At least it does at the Durham VA.) He will be there for a while and in several weeks will enjoy a break to visit his family. Then he will return to rehab.

This is the third time this pro has been injured. You'd think he would have learned by now! {;*))

 

JPWREL

5:35 PM ET

August 5, 2011

He is a great guy a real pro

He is a great guy a real pro and can't return to Tom's club here here too early. I will say nothing about the details of his wounding he can tell that story himself if he so chooses once he returns to TBD.

 

HUNTER

12:46 AM ET

August 7, 2011

Um help us out?

Is it ESIII? He's been silent too long. Get well soon, whoever you are!

 

RVN SF VET

2:31 AM ET

August 7, 2011

ESIII

Informs me that he has suffered his 3rd TBI injury and is in rehabilitation. This could explain some of his comments. {;*))

 

ASTONISHED VAG

12:14 PM ET

August 5, 2011

Military Documentaries

I have a few European friends who possess negative feelings towards the US military not only because of the conflicts that we are currently engaged in, but because of their belief that the military exploits minority and low income communities by recruiting individuals who have no other or minimal alternatives. I confess that my father not only enlisted because of our family's belief in the warrior tradition, but also because it provided economic stability and educational access for a boy who grew up in the segregated south.

I've shared my families story but I also shared a documentary entitled, "Blood and Dust". It was produced for AlJazeeraEnglish and you can find it on Youtube. I think this documentary did a great job at making my friends reconsider some of the perceptions that they have towards the military (mainly that they are just killing instead of helping).

Does anyone have a few good recommendations that would be great to share with a few cynical Europeans?

 

MGUNNS

9:38 PM ET

August 5, 2011

Last resort my a$$

How condescending of them. Maybe NO European has EVER joined the military for financial stability, since their welfare states have made it possible to make a living wage off welfare payments.

I've gotten fed up with this minority and low income recruiting crap too. Are there troops from those areas? Absolutely, I was one. But there are far more suburban kids than inner city folks. Heck, the schools are so bad in the inner cities only 25% of the kids graduate, so how many even qualify for military service? Those that do are the cream of the crop, and they most assuredly have plenty of options for college or work by comparison. Why is it suspect that someone with a low income background can be a patriot or drawn to military service?

Ever remind your Euro friends of their colonial histories? No country has kept their hands clean forever. Might want to remind the Germans of Adolf, the Brits of George III and the East India Co, the French of Napoleon, Italians of Mussolini, Russians of Stalin, Spanish conquistadors, etc. George W. pales by comparison, doesn't he?

 

TOM RICKS

1:16 PM ET

August 6, 2011

Sure

'The Sorrow and the Pity'
Cynically,
Tom

 

ASTONISHED VAG

11:45 PM ET

August 6, 2011

To MGunns

Well, considering that the individuals that I am looking to share with are Irish, Bosnian (Bosniak to be precise), and Romanian, any reminder of colonial history would be that of their own oppression and genocide under the British, Serbs, and Soviets. But even that reminder won't do much because they are in their early to mid 20s, have witnessed the conciliation process in their own countries, and they feel this hope of living in countries aiming to (re) develop their own cultural identies. To them, they see the US government and our military as institutions seeking to oppress another people; to them, we are the new colonial power imposing our own ideals onto other indigenous cultures.

When they do hear arguments against blaming individual military personnel, it is usually infused with the whole, "you can't really blame them because they are being exploited themselves". Much like they hold quite a bit of antagonism towards our government, but this fascination with our tv shows, music, and fast food.

You may be tired of these types of opinions and perceptions, but we are talking about members of a generation that have watched the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars through the availability of Youtube, Wikileaks, and Yahoo! News Clips. Most of what they know about our military has been through the most egregious stories broadcasted on RTE and SkyNews. And I'm just hoping to share some good pieces that may give them a deeper insight into the complexity of the type of people serving, and the reasons why they serve. I know one was surprised that American medics were healing the very same insurgents that had just moments before had tried to kill their colleagues.

I get your feeling of being tired of their condescending opinion (not long ago, some even mentioned how only Americans resort to mass gun violence and then two weeks later the Norway tragedy happened). But, I try to remember that these young'uns aren't the WWII generation and they aren't likely to perceive the Americans as the great liberators, saviors, rescurers, or whatever that their parents and grandparents may remember.

 

ERIC_STRATTONIII

7:45 PM ET

August 12, 2011

I would almost not bother AV

The kids are obviously just that, kids, if someone from Romania or Ireland looks at the US in that way then they are being intellectually lazy. They sound like College Students who merely parrot back what they get from urban myths. Both countries would not be in their positions today if were not for US Foreign Policy and being from the Boston area I can assure you it has not stopped the Irish from coming over to live nor has it stopped a lot of brides from Romania getting hitched to US Servicemen or immigrants from coming as well. The Bosnian might have a legit gripe, depending on how he views our actions under Clinton. They all sound like wanna be intellectuals who want to sip coffee, pontificate about something they obviously know little to nothing about and refuse to actually check their ideas against anything objective. All you can do is ask them what use for a source for their views and to back up their opinions with facts, I do not think they will listen though and do not envy you as you attempt to use logic on them. Good Luck.

 

Thomas E. Ricks covered the U.S. military for the Washington Post from 2000 through 2008.

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