Wednesday, July 6, 2011 - 11:04 AM

From Josh Holden, a West Pointer who spent five years in baseball's minor leagues and then, after being cut, went back to the Army as promised and pulled back-to-back tours in Iraq: "Personally, it couldn't have worked out better for me. I got to chase a dream, and now that I'm a soldier, I hope that I am giving the Army as much as it has given me."
I wonder which of the many soldiers the Army illegally stop-lossed into repeat Iraq tours could have been spared if Holden had skipped his little detour into scrub-dom.
The stop-loss policy was a tool commanders used to hold onto the Soldiers they wanted to hold onto for a complete deployment. It was not evenly applied across units and, counterintuitively, did not apply to all Soldiers serving in the units named in the orders.
I think that this program is a good idea. It is a good tool to attract officers with a competitive, winning mindset to the service academies. Consider this hypothetical: Which officer do you want in the fight: The competitive, all star athelete who has his deployment delayed or the type B bureaucrat who shows up on time to count the days down to redeployment?
That is an over-simplification, I know. But, the idea here is not all officers are created equal in terms of leadership ability, warrior mindset, and star power.
I would of course want the hard-charger in the fight. But I would want him IN THE FIGHT, not playing baseball in America.
And since when has West Point had trouble attracting cadets with competitive mindsets? Last I heard, it takes a perfect GPA, at least two varsity letters, and a letter from a congresscritter to even be considered for entry to any service academy.
THAT is what you two got out of this post. Awesome! I guess we should go back to talking about 6 mile runs and sneakers.
ah, you missed the good old days
when Admiral was posting here all the time (an even more abrasive version of Don Bacon).
DB is a 9/11 Truther from FiredogLake, Kunino is also a conspiracy theorist but not as bad. CMeyergo hates military officers and thinks they're vastly overpaid.
there, I've just summarized half of the comment threads here for the past couple years so you don't have to read them. the other half had good stuff.
Do I live on the right planet?
That Army could attract more recruits by releasing an officer to play ball strikes me as the height of madness. Even more insane is the thought of an officer who would postpone an active duty commitment while his pals are fighting a war. More needs to be known about the Army or DoD officials who endorsed this, by name.
While one may legitimately question DOD or Army policy in this matter I don’t see any reason for a negative splash back on Josh Holden himself who has followed the rules and is honorably doing his duty. Tom’s right, he demonstrates a ‘good attitude’ and is perhaps an officer the Army might consider a keeper.
I would rather these words come from Holden's mouth, directly: there was an opportunity, and I took it. Meanwhile, I'd also like to know how this story came to be news in the first place.
For the record, I'll grant he did nothing dishonorable. But I wonder if all his classmates agree?
And I have absolutely no issue with it. He's serving his time now after many we went to school with moved into civilian life. Yeah he's in Iraq which is a lot safer than it used to be, but so are about 40,000 other Soldiers.
It is not like He missed the Wars
9th Quarter is Ours!
Since he is a 2003 grad I imagine a few of his classmates have moved on with their lives. The same thing probably happened during the 30 Years War and 100 Years War.
If the war is a sprint, you sprint. If the war is an ultra-marathon or Death Valley to Mount Whitney you need to run at an appropriate pace.
No doubt at least some of his classmates are dead.
If war is a sprint, you sprint, and if it's an ultra-marathon, you don't sit out the first 30 miles.
Had he gone straight to active duty, he'd have been deployed multiple times by 2007. As it happened, his two tours came after 2008.
Given that Iraq became quite a bit less dangerous while he was playing baseball, and that doing back-to-back Iraq deployments makes him less likely to deploy again, you might say that he actually did miss the wars.
Let's stop dancing around with wild guesses. Here's the cold, hard reality.
http://defender.west-point.org/service/taps.mhtml?s=d&g=usma2003
5 of his classmates have perished. 4 clearly due to enemy action, 1 isn't listed (on this website anyway). Maybe a look at these young faces will cull some of these stupid comments. Look long and hard.
What cynical bastards (and I usually think I am cynical - but you folks take the cake). This guy wasn't at that critical place at that critical time - stop acting like it might somehow be at fault because he was swatting baseballs instead of dying in the place of Cadet v, w, x, y, or z. I assure you while the threat is down in Iraq, the opportunity to get maimed or killed still exists.
Cut the guy a break. We all contribute in our own manner and in our own time. Plenty of war to go around.
Of way more concern is that as a Capt he hasn't gained the MOS credibility that he should have had he done those deployments as a 2nd lt and 1st Lt.
Some of his classmates are dead, not many. Most of his classmates will leave, not in a flag draped box" Most are leaving because it is time for them to leave. I don't have stats for 2003 but it looks like maybe 60% are leaving over 10 years?
"And more than 54 percent of the 935 graduates in the class of 2000 had left active duty by this January, the statistics show" Boston Globe 11 APr 2007
Next we can whine about Congressional Fellows or White House Fellows not winning the war. It is only a lucky few, it is run by the Army, and they won't be out of the game long.
Wow...give the guy a break!
Welcome back to the Army! I am happy for the man. Many of his year group would love to have had that option had they the talent to play minor league baseball.
.
Well done Josh Holden...it may not be the specific kind of "broadening and diverse" assignments the Army CoS had in mind, but good on you!
Well, America's Army could only go far
getting the gamers to join up (though I still contend in the issue of fairness they should of had people sitting out between rounds doing stupid AARs and rifle maintenance so they'd get a taste of REAL army life.)
This is a head scratcher though. Was the objective to get other famous people to be like "hey I can do that too" and get them to sign up for the Army (taking a page right out of the Scientology recruiting book)? Or was it simply to get people like Holden, to bank on that they wouldn't make it to the pro's (lets face it, the Black Knights aren't exactly renowned for their sports program) and then you'd you have them for 7 years?
I mean the highest profile recruit since Riddick Bowe was Patrick Tillman, and he didn't opt for this program. He just went in, took his SPC rank for his college degree and had at it with 2nd bat.
And he certain has a better attitude
than some of the commenters today!
Cheers,
Tom
He could have been Caleb Campbell who was promised this opportunity by the Army, which then backed out on the promise.
http://www.faniq.com/blog/Caleb-Campbell-Lions-Draft-Pick-From-Army-Told-To-Report-For-Military-Duty-Instead-Of-Training-Camp-Blog-10475
Of course, Caleb was doubly cursed. He was eventually recruited - and played for - The Detroit Lions. A fate worse than Iraq?
http://www.nfltouchdown.com/caleb-campbell-to-be-the-detroit-lions-2010-edition-of-zack-follett/
Must confess that I'm not too impressed by someone who got a 4 year scholarship to our premier military academy....and then in a time of war chose to gratify his personal ambition by playing pro ball first, before joining his comrades at the front. I'm more impressed by the example of Hollywood actor Jimmy Stewart who volunteered for the Army Air Force and flew combat missions over Germany during WW2 (while other stars got cushy jobs representing the military in Hollywood....like a former President).
Arthur Ashe, the tennis player, served two years on Active Duty after ROTC commissioning. While playing, the commentators often referred to him as LT Ashe. He was a fine advertisement for the Army.
West Point football players have received papal dispensation to play pro ball and then went on to complete their obligation. So, they got the Army publicity. However, with the exception of LT Ashe, I doubt that any of these programs impact recruiting. This has nothing to do with any of the people in the programs, it is the lack of empirical data that they have any impact at all. The private sector invests allot of money in focus groups and surveys to validate their advertising. To my knowledge, the Army does not. In fact, Army commercials are absent from my broadcast TV here in NC. However, the home state of the East Coast Marines is saturated with those superb Marine Corps commercials.
Personally, I'm offended by all special duty and seriously doubt the real worth of the flying demonstration teams, marksmanship units, and parachuting teams. Besides, we are at war and I want the best officers possible on the line along with some folks who can shoot.
But, Arthur Ashe sure had class.
Seems David Robinson (San Antonio Spurs) was in this category too.
Navy only made him serve 2 of 5 year obligation.
Do you really doubt the worth of the Blue Angels? Because it seems to me like they do a good job of getting little kids at air shows thinking that there might be some awesome opportunities in the military and also of being an ambassador between the military and the other 99% of the country. As far as shooting teams go, the members are there at best as a b billet, more typically as a 1 year FAP or on TAD orders, and the coaches are typically permanent range personnel, at least in the Marines.
The AMU conducts shooting clinics throughout the Army and has been a driving force behind the implementation of CAT-C; the greatly improved new marksmanship curriculum.
Does that name say enough?
He graduated from the USNA in 1964 (Heisman winner) and was drafted for the NFL. But he chose to go on active duty and in fact served in Vietnam. He got off active duty in 1969 and then played pro ball. Quite the opposite example from the soldier who is the subject of this thread.
Are you really this crochety all the time?
Very interesting, Lieber. Seems like you expect to have unanimous agreement in a blog discussion. If there's a disagreement on the topic, seems that you like to attach labels to those who disagree. Let's see, in the past few weeks you've called people whom you disagree with "irrelevant," "random internet people," "grumpy," "crotchety," "9/11 Truther," and other dismissive names. You know, you stand out in Tom's excellent blog by being the only name-caller. I wouldn't be proud of that, if I were you, because other people here manage to disagree without being disagreeable.
But, FG42 is this accurate. Being crotchety and being accurate be different.
For my part, there is a big difference between AMU cadre and AMU competitors. I believe it is the cadre who teach marksmanship and staff small units at different posts. The cadre perform a vital function.
This guy was a lieutenant at the SAME time as being a baseball player? It would be bad enough in my mind for the guy to take a break and just be a civilian playing ball before getting his war on, but still being a lieutenant while doing so is adding insult to injury.
What did he do to deserve to be promoted to captain?? Granted, I never took a "captain's exam" before pinning railroad tracks, but jeez...
The Army Marksmanship Unit is the only 'extra curricular' military club that seems to be worth anything to me. They actually bring marksmanship knowledge back to the force. What does the Army boxing team bring to fight?
I'm sorry, but this is just crazy that some of you think its ok for tax payers to pay for a guy to play baseball and then put his ACUs back on when he's good and ready.
Oh and... as someone pointed out, the photo of him illustrates two things: 1) by missing deployments as a PL, he didn't learn that its good etiquette to take your freakin gloves off when shaking hands; 2) this photo looks like it was taken at a FOB....just sayin..
We send young men and women to West Point to GO ACTIVE DUTY and GET IN THE FIGHT, not to play baseball.
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