Friday, January 21, 2011 - 11:27 AM

Tom: In all the commentary I've seen on this continuing exchange, the one that most struck me was, What would you do if you were Lt. Col. Flynn and knew there were bombs built into the mud walls of the village -- that is, how many soldiers are you willing to lose if you don't knock down the walls?
Here is Josh's response to the colonel.
By Joshua Foust
Best Defense guest columnist
Many thanks to Tom for agreeing to host this discussion about tactics in Afghanistan. I, too, am impressed to see how quickly LTC Flynn responded to my admittedly heated criticisms of what happened in Tarok Kolache this past winter. However, there are some points I feel I should clear up:
To clarify: I am not an orator. I am a fellow at the American Security Project and a columnist for PBS, and before that I spent many years working on and in Afghanistan for the Intelligence Community. It is misguided to deride my expertise or experience in trying to evaluate what happened. Similarly, as the commander responsible for some of the decisions we're discussing, we would all have to agree that he can not be objective.
I'm curious that both Tom and Paula linked to my post criticizing the decision to burn a village to the ground with nearly 50,000 pounds of explosives, yet all LTC Flynn felt the need to address was the decision to train an ALP cell. My criticism of what happened in Paula's writing on it, is substantially more than the ALP. It involves questions of clearing policies, land redistribution, the inclusion of Colonel Raziq as a local partner, and, finally, the decision to build an ALP cell outside MOI monitoring. I'd be interesting to see LTC Flynn addressing either the decision to destroy that and other villages in the area. Or, for that matter, Paula's portrayal of the event, which derided locals complaining about the property loss as "engaging in theatrics" and claimed 25 tons of explosives were dropped on a village but somehow didn't leave a huge smoking crater in the ground.
As to the meat of LTC Flynn's response, he does not address my original point about the ALP, which was that expediency inspired him to what Paula described as avoiding the MOI vetting process in building out a local militia. From interviews I've since conducted with soldiers active in Kandahar, it is my understanding that this is a common practice-detail he could have provided, were his real concern contextualizing what happened, as his opening paragraph suggested -- but that doesn't address the fundamental problem: at the end of the day, you are side-stepping the government of Afghanistan. And, much more importantly, the reason the MOI wants to be involved is so that local shuras don't use ALP cells as their personal militias -- a problem based in the vetting process LTC Flynn still has not addressed (such as how one, as a foreigner, performs a background check in an area that doesn't have paper records of its inhabitants).
LTC Flynn did not address my concern about previous local militia efforts in Kandahar, which have all involved hired soldiers either defecting or abandoning their posts and eventually selling their weapons to the Taliban. I have heard good things about Nyaz Muhammad (again, with the context LTC Flynn wants), but that still does not address how you accountably manage a group you cannot vet and will have difficulty monitoring.
I'm grateful to see, at the end, LTC Flynn address concerns about risk. This is the crux of my argument, and it's possible that appropriate measures have been taken to address them. These measures, however, have not come out in the reporting about the situation in Tarok Kolache. It cannot be unfair to react against the information available on hand, using experience from nearby areas to try, imperfectly, to fill in the knowledge gaps. Ground commanders do this routinely; it is not out of bounds for citizens to do so as well.
I share LTC Flynn's desire to see the Arghandab return to the relatively stable state it enjoyed under Mullah Naqib. But to do that requires a very sophisticated understanding of the politics, power relationships, and social networks of the area. And from what Paula has written of the area, I just don't see any evidence of that understanding. And that, not the specific decision-making of LTC Flynn, is what I found so shocking.
"LTC Flynn did not address my concern..."
Snap to, Colonel, you got some 'splainin to do to the guy who claims he's no orator.
Mr. Foust, my advice to you is an elementary suggestion: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. LTC Flynn is out there on the front lines, trying to do the right thing. You are an officious bloviator with far too much time on your hands. As well as a little bit of knowledge, which as we can see from your twisting and turning, is a whole lot worse than none at all.
Capitaine Noval, make no mistake about it, I understand where you're coming from. However, long past experience has taught me that going outside of protocol, though it can have quicker immediate results, such as this issue of the ALP, it is often held together by force of personality and cannot be sustained upon that personality leaving.
A good example was the Marine Corps' CAP introduced in Viet-Nam: when the personalities that originally envisioned and drove that program left/retired, it faltered, and had no support from Saigon (Kabul?).
Dear Good Captain Noval:
What, are you inverting Clemenceau and channeling Ripper with the idea that "war now is too important to be left up to the politicians [and civilian analysts who criticize aspects of it]?
Of course the good Colonel Flynn is out there trying to do the right thing, as you say.
But so too is Josh Foust, and his criticism of military affairs and particularly operations in Afghanistan is vital for the democracy. After all if we ascribe to the notion that the commander on the ground is right and by rule we must defer to his judgment because he is there, well we then are really nothing more than a bunch of militarists.
gian
"A bunch of militarists?" Really?
LTC Flynn doesn't really have the time to respond, and frankly shouldn't respond, to the half-informed speculations and second-guessing of a Chairborne Non-Ranger back here inside the Beltway. He's too busy trying to keep his boys alive and complete the crappy mission he's been assigned. You ought to know that as well as anybody. He's no militarist and owes no blogger a second of his time, let alone a response to a bunch of tomfoolery posted up on that Internet thing, which as we all know is just a bunch of tubes, manned mostly by a bunch of boobs.
End of story.
Simply protecting soldiers/marines, destroying villages, deploying the money gun, and killing enemies will not lead to political victory, and will pretty much negate the sacrifice, and economic and social costs for combatants and non-combatants.
It hasn't been lost on the Iraqis and Afghans (both allies and enemies) that the Americans (and NATO militaries) in any particular AO really just want to achieve their immediate and one-year objectives, preserve soldiers' lives, hand out some toys and sporting goods, and go home. Under the best of circumstances and smooth unit hand-offs, a series of American (and NATO) commanders securing a district, using expedient means to obtain short-term calm will not lead to Afghan (or Iraqi) self-sufficiency, connection to the central government, rule-of-law, or civil society.
Deployment of CERP funds merits special mention as a tool that has become a slush fund for influence-buying and force-protection. The AO commander can cite "security" and use the CERP funds for whatever, whether or not it makes long-term sense.
Of course, American military commanders with their absolute respect for U.S. civilian authority and their equally absolute commitment to achieving "the mission" and bringing all of theor people home will do pretty much what they are told, perhaps after some interpretation and accounting for manpower and resources.
This kind of back and forth between a combatant commander and civilian is typical but never shocking (anymore). You have on one side a fellow with experience in the "intelligence" community critiquing the decisions of a tried commander with combat experience twice over in Afghanistan. It's more interesting to me that someone with experience in the intelligence community doesn't give more credit to the commander who is commanding troops that provide the very information the intelligence community uses to form... intelligence. You think intel officers actually leave the wire? Not in the years I've been around.
It's very easy for someone that has never had a round fired at them in anger to believe the information they read on the internet about there being a "better way". As a former troop leader I for one would have never sent my men into a bomb laden village to disarm one bomb at a time. I would have done what is SOP which is to clear the area of civilians and bombed the crap out of it. I think I read someone write in another forum about this that "if there were no civilians in the village then how were the taliban living there?" This question made me laugh because it's apparent that most civilians know nothing about strong points and tactics, let alone the tactics the taliban use which are in some ways genius and other ways dumb as all heck. I suppose the commander in this case could have bypassed the village but that would not be defeating the enemy would it? If there was a bomb laden city in the United States do you think the government would just "go around" it? Probably not. A bomb laden village is a threat to the security of not just security forces but for obvious reasons, the very villagers that used to live there. It's ignorant to think there's another way to handle this. Perhaps Joshua would like the commander to have asked the taliban to disarm the bombs for him so he wouldn't have to send one hundred guys in bomb suits to methodically fish out all the explosives and risk their lives. Since the taliban are beheading people and setting school children on fire, I'm thinking they may not reply to that text message.
This kind of back and forth will never end between soldier and civilian. But it's like trying to argue with a drunk person at a bar, they've already made up their mind you were wrong and the sky is whatever color they say it is. I understand that it's frustrating for people to try to make sense of the issues we're having in Afghanistan so they just attack the military (because it's obviously their fault we're there and messing everything up.). It's a good thing Joshua isn't leading troops or they'd all be dead or wounded in the pursuit of better politics.
Fault the civilian politicians of both parties for giving the military a bunch of crappy, unsuitable missions with too many moving parts and no capable, credible local ally. Declarations of war and national mobilization make so much more sense now that we have witnessed at least four instnaces of politicians trying to conduct war on the cheap (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan).
Lay secondary blame on the military brass for not articulating the military's limitations to the civilian authorities, or being able to stop digging deeper the hole they are in. Sometimes the mission is stupid and should not be attempted. How can the nation have Brass who have The Brass to push back legally and appropriately?
Lay more blame on the many pundits and security experts who have concocted a modern day domino theory that compels the US military to remain mired in Afghanistan and other misadventures.
Billions of dollars and 10,000's of lives expended in an effort to chase down a few terrorists (who got lucky once), and to stand up a shell of a government that will need extensive support for decades. Does anyone truly believe that developing Afghanistan is worth the bones of single Pennsylvanian grenadier?
albeit a few years ago.
First, the notion that the only qualified commentators are those who have been shot at is disgusting. There are plenty of very knowledgeable civilians who have very astute observations that are worth listening to. If in doubt, read John Keegan's bio.
Second, the notion that civilians have fixed biases on the conduct of war is wrong. Getting shot at, returning fire, and dealing with the maimed and dead of both sides gives one an intense emotional, and hence biased, perspective on the conflict, which is often more rigid than the most partisan civilian.
Third, the notion that criticism of 'our side' military actions is an attack on the military is flawed. The Army's after action review process is not exclusive of external contribution. In fact, engaged public criticism presents opportunities for institutional improvement. After all, if this looks questionable to the domestic audience, imagine how it looks on the receiving end.
Fourth, the notion that the guy on the ground is always right is wrong. The commander on the ground should always be given the benefit of the doubt when a situation first unfolds, but as more information comes to light, outside perspectives gain weight. History is full of examples of the commander on the ground making the wrong decision.
Fifth, your SOP for dealing with this kind of a threat would violate many of the theatre commander's directives of my day.
Finally, wars aren't won by tactics, though they can be lost by poor tactics. They're won by better politics.
I can't help be reminded of the old chestnut: "never wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pig actually likes it."
COL Gentile is right, everyone has the God-given right to make a fool of themselves - in whatever forum they choose. And civilians of any sort can - and should - question the motives and methods of the military they finance.
But Flynn doesn't have to respond. And given the continuing dialogue from Foust, I wouldn't. Sitting Bn Cdrs in theater don't really have the time - although they do have a responsibility from a media/influence operation perspective. Flynn made a cursory, well thought out response which may not have answered all Foust's questions...but I have a feeling that that is a bridge too far anyway. The crack about the OER would have been enough to set me off providing any response at all.
See the analogy about the pig again.
Actually Noval I was referring to you as the "militarist" and not Flynn
As somebody with his own boy presently in the AOR, when I look in the mirror I see somebody who doesn't make much of a militarist. Contrary to my own instincts, it has frankly driven me to become rather dovish.
But whatever my inclinations are, I don't want to see our battalion commanders wasting their thought on what some guy sitting in a cubicle is saying. The initial accusation of LTC Flynn of being a criminal interested in nothing more than his next OER ought to have disqualified Mr. Foust from being taken seriously by doves, militarists, or anybody in between.
When you led boys in theater, do you think it would have been a useful expenditure of your time to engage in internet controversies stirred up by somebody without any first-hand experience who accused you of being a criminal interested only in his career? I didn't think so. That LTC Flynn even formulated a response to Mr. Foust's provocation is the only bad thing I can say about the Colonel.
A fresh story including LTC Flynn from Arghandab, August 2010
(http://assignmentafghanistan.org/story/another-day-dab/article)
I spent August 2010 with Alpha Battery, 1-320th FAR in and around COP Nolen, in Arghandab District, Kandahar Province. Before I arrived, I had heard a few horror stories about Arghandab from the gang at Kandahar Airfield's media operations center. Some guys had just come off rotation and said that the artillerymen were out of their element in Arghandab—one of the most violently contested and strategic locations for both the insurgency and the Coalition (drug/weapons smuggling corridor, key influence point on Kandahar City, key ideological terrain). I decided to go despite what I was hearing, mostly that guys were getting limbs blown off left and right because they weren't observing proper SOPs.
That analysis—that the 1-320th guys were fish out of water out on patrol, instead of behind Howitzers—didn't mesh with what I witnessed by early August, when I linked up with them, after they'd been there for just a few weeks. They were thoroughly professional, though understandably stymied by the swarm of Taliban fighters infesting their area of operations and especially by the minefield of anti-personnel IEDs outside the gates of their COPs. My dear friend 1LT Todd Weaver—who I served with in Iraq when I was a combat engineer in 2005—was killed by one of those IEDs while leading his platoon in the vicinity of COP Stout, a new holding in Arghandab District, on September 9. Lt. Weaver was a Ranger-qualified PL who got sent over from the 2-502—one of the Army's most celebrated infantry units. These guys were anything but amateurs, but IEDs don't care about MOS designations; they are equal opportunity killers, and I think LTC Flynn understood the severe threat they posed to his men and designed his battle plan accordingly.
I can't know what happened in Taren Koch, but I do know that Charqabaolya—near COP Nolen—was cleared at great peril the old fashioned way in July 2010, and it's a miracle the clearance didn't cost the lives of half a dozen 101st soldiers. I don't think LTC wanted to take that risk again; and he didn't need to. One of the things that's not adequately described in this reporting is that most of Arghandab District's villages inside the so-called "green zone," on the flanks of the river, have been abandoned for years—they are ghost towns inhabited and booby-trapped by the Taliban. It appears that Taren Koch was one of those ghost town hideouts, and LTC Flynn didn't see the need to risk his soldiers' lives or limbs to clear it door to door with sapper assets.
LTC Flynn also made a decision not to aggressively push into the green zone and try to hold an untenable amount of terrain during the summer fighting season. He made the decision to wait to clear and hold up to the river banks until after the winter had come, the fighters had gone back to Pakistan to rest, and the foliage had been reduced. That decision undoubtedly saved lives and limbs.
Read my new story "Another Day in the 'Dab" (http://assignmentafghanistan.org/story/another-day-dab/article) to get an understanding of what operating in Arghandab District is like in the summer months, and why the region is critical to the insurgency and the coalition.
Elliott D. Woods
Writer / Photgrapher
AssignmentAfghanistan.org
Put on a uniform and play God.
It is amazing to read the rational for murdering civilians and leveling their homes. Put on a uniform and play God.
Flynn may be coming to your town soon, and will blow it off the map with your children.
Lieutenant Colonel Flynn unfortunately comes across as what we used to term a "hot dog." And with rabbit ears to boot, although that's not uncommon with hot dogs. Those who've pointed out that he shouldn't have replied to Foust's blog comments are on point: Upthread, Noval notes that Flynn is too busy for such nonsense; would that Noval were correct.
It seems that not only is Flynn NOT too busy to reply to the blogger Foust, he is unresponsive when it comes to the questions raised by Foust. Flynn is his own worst enemy here: his rabbit ears compelled him to react to the criticism with a self-serving response, but the unfortunate reality is that the response is shoddy. Flynn would have been better off with no response at all.
Here's one retired officer who thinks that Lieutenant Colonel Flynn should have heeded good advice handed down over the years: leave this stuff alone. Granted, although his questions are good, Foust comes across as an idiot with the gratuitous crack about OERs, but Flynn doesn't come off any better in this unfortunate affair. One cannot but wonder at the caliber of leadership he's providing if he's got time to chase after every negative comment posted by the many bloggers addressing Afghanistan. You gotta figure if he took the time to engage Foust, he's doing it with others.
And, hey, Captain Noval and others: Been there and done that; I'm retired from this business. And I'll tell you something: the last person I trust to give me any meaningful information is the troop on the ground. He's too close to the action and too emotionally invested. Listen to Colonel Gentile. The U.S. is a civilian nation, run by civilians. And a lot of us old Vietnam dudes might be here today to post on blogs thanks to those fringe civilians who finally asked enough questions to get the attention of the American people. After nine fruitless years in Afghanistan and with too many casualties (thankfully, far fewer than in Vietnam), Lieutenant Colonel Flynn and all other military officers need to be subjected to hard questioning.
And if they can't answer the hard questions, we don't need them.
In his original comment at his blog "Registan", Mr. Foust's primary objection was that the village was indeed destroyed by aerial bombs and artillery rather than the many many IEDs being cleared one by one in order to preserve the original structures. He was not very kind about what he thought were the motives behind this decision. You can get the tone of his objection from the following quote.
"Sorry, you are the argument from expediency...and assuming proper motives on the part of the commander when we have no evidence to support it."
Most of the objections to his position were because people thought this unreasonable of him. After very many comments calling him to task on this, he modified his position on the propriety of the decision to destroy then rebuild the village to this.
"Look, I can accept that maybe a village has to be leveled to clear it of explosives."
Very few people disputed his other objections about land clearing policies, the recruitment of ALP or the tone of Ms. Broadwell's original article.
Foust has a notoriously arrogant style. He will routinely pick and choose targets often out of context, build a straw man, then knock it down. I have yet to read any constructive solutions presented in his critiques. He claims to have extensive experience in Afghanistan, doing what I am not sure. Other than his personal criticisms he seldom has offerred much in his articles, that has not been covered exhaustively elsewhere. It is a mistake to get agitated by what he writes. He is a blogger, who wants to get his name mentioned on the web.
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