That is shocking, but it has happened before. I can't speak to the veracity of either's account, but the same thing happened with the British SAS patrol in Desert Storm. McNabb wrote a best seller. Ryan's story was pretty good as well. Then a Sgt Maj did some research, wrote his own book and smacked both down with some facts. Word on the street from my Brit friends is that neither McNabb or Ryan are welcome at Hereford anymore.

I can say with authority that Luttrell's description of Bahrain, circa 2005 if memory serves, was way off. I was in the Magic Kingdom at the same time and most of the americans living there loved it. I know americans who go there for vacation. I didn't see any of the resentment of US presence there that Luttrell described.

I'll cut him some slack, as any guy who goes up the hill with a team and comes back alone, is going to be haunted by that experience for the rest of his life. Every day he is going to wake up wondering why he was the one that made it back. I can understand why a guy like that would not be too keen on living on an island of mosques and burkas.

No doubt some of the fact disparity is fog of war and Men Against Fire, effect. Some of it is a guy trying to deal with some very weighty stuff. We'll never know what really happened.

My brother and I have written copious amounts on Lone Survivor over at our website, and I'm glad to see this false information is finally getting out there. Darack is an incredible resource, and he did a lot of hard work to make sure that the right credit goes to the right people.

In my opinion, Lone Survivor's biggest problem is that it is off-puttingly political, referring to liberals as “a half-assed, no-logic nitwit”. He claims Iraq had WMDs and Al Quada training camps, and that liberals and the media are destroying the country and ruining the military.

It is hard to take the book seriously; I don't know how so many people have.

Hi Rick,

It wasn't really a book review that Darack did, but he did mention it in his latest story "Operation RED WINGS: What really happened?" in this month's issue of the Marine Corps Gazette.

Read here: http://www.marinecorpsgazette-digital.com/marinecorpsgazette/201101/?pg=65&pm=2&u1=friend

If 8-10 taliban could wipe out a detachment of 4 SEALs, then they would have driven us from the country years ago.

I'll take Luttrel's account over some civilian who wasnt there anyday. Heck, even when we had multiple FMVs over the battlefield they still couldnt tell the entire story as well as the operators on the ground could. Not like actual experience in Afghanistan makes any difference to the wannabees here..

But it makes all the chickenhawks on this site who have never fought but LOVE to give military the riot act (especially Ricks) a chance to feel good about their own lack of service.

SWOs don't get a pass in spouting off about SpecWar ops either. Personal memoirs are notorious for their variable interpretation of the facts, regardless of the author's intent. Eyewitness accounts are hardly the most reliable form of information. What a some "mere" civilian has done is through some rigorous analysis and cross-referencing tried to give an objective accounting of what happened. It didn't mesh exactly with other accounts. You can make your own conclusions about that. I'll go with hard evidence any day. You can go with idol worshiping SEALs if you like.

None of what's on Ricks' post diminishes what that team did that day. No need to go making ad hominems about people who aren't veterans. That should be reserved for former SecDefs and VPs who have five deferments under their belt.

As much as you would like all historians to be war heroes, they aren't. And if members of JSOTF had written these books, then it would be different story. In fact, they were ghost written or written by people who, as you put it, never served a day in their lives. Darack notes that right away and is only trying to square the details with what he's learned. And what kind of agenda would the marines have? You mean every marine he interviewed wanted to distort the story in some way? Don't see the upside to that. If you've got some inside gouge, please enlighten us. I'm not sure how this is an attack on PO2 Luttrell. Nor how the service history of the journalists involved is relevant in any way.

Ed Darack is no "mere civilian." He has lived with Marines in war and peace... been with Marines and Army in multiple battles in Afghanistan and Iraq and earned the respect of his friends at the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center. I have seen him post-hole up a slope that would kick most men's butts on skis, but then he is also a guy who has soloed Denali and kayaked around the Baja Peninsula just to do it. He may not have worn the uniform but he has put his time in.
I saw Ed put in tons of work in researching his book and he interviewed many people who were there. Luttrell was the only one who did not accept his interview request for reasons that are now obvious.

Don't make assumptions based on your antipathy for anything that casts less than a golden glow on NSW. The preponderance of the facts support Ed's account.

kayaking around the Baja peninsula doesnt make one an expert on SOF operations.

I'll take Luttrell's account, who was there, and the investigators who validated LT Murphy's MOH for that action, over some guy trying to make a dollar by casting dispersions on the dead.

Don't worry about it trying to convince Mrs. Wo. I seriously doubt that she has any knowledge or experience with any of the matters being discussed much less the difference between dispersion and aspersion. I need to stop responding to trolls.

I learned something from it.
Thanks,
Tom

I'm pretty sure the co-author for Marcus's book is also the co-author for B20. In both books, the Brit co-author embellishes a good bit.

Marcus's story is good. I wish he would've left the political meanderings out though. The facts of the TIC and his survival are compelling enough for an interesting book.

There are also problems with his assertion that the goat herders compromised their position. Seems a little far fetched that a couple of goat herders could run down to the village, rally a group of fighters, and they could maneuver up the mountain and surround the team in 2 hours, all without the team hearing their movement. Not likely.

A more likely explanation is that they were observed well before that and the militia maneuvered quietly in place for the ambush over the course of the morning. CH-47s tend to make a good bit of noise. Makes insertions pretty obvious, even with false insertions during the sortie.

The value of Marcus's story is the survival part, not the tactics or politics. And you gotta give him credit, he got back on the horse and went back out for another deployment.

MRSWO,

Ed was there with us. I'll stand by that to the day I die. He's a great guy and came with us on many missions. He was there first hand on many attacks on our base as well.

2/3 Marines
0311

I worked in the CJOSTF immediately post this incident and did my best to understand the issues as we re-inserted our FE into AFG. Having read both books there are obvious flaws in both. In fact I struggled with Durack's account not because of any factual issue but because it is so pro-MAGTF to the detriment of everything else that it became tiresome ... it's a book that could have used a bloody good editor because most of it is redundant rah-rah Corps stuff.
Both books (as flawed as they are) are important in the overall understanding ... neither book is any better than the other and like all 'first reports of history' need to be approached in just that manner.
NSW would love Lutterells book
USMC would love Darack's book
Read both and use them to learn valuable lessons rather than simply play one off against the other.
PS not US Mil

Hi all,
New to posting, but I've been a longtime reader.
While we're on the topic of personal accounts, if someone has taken a look at 'Operation Dark Heart' by Anthony Shaffer I'd like to hear their take on it. There seems to be a great wealth of personal experience/knowledge in these forums, and the topic of accurate/unbiased reporting in war would be good to touch on.
Cheers

"Battle for freedom?" I guess so, if genocide creates freedom. Suckers!

wtdoor - I guess going to school with someone who went to Afghanistan makes you an authority on Afghanistan

some of your fellow USNA alumni died on the NSW side of that op. I guess you went SWO or Supply corps or found some other way to sit out the war.

@ spud - agree with the bit on Darack being determined to make the USMC shine. I dont think they did anything wrong, but making them look good at NSW expense (mainly because NSW doesnt bring press along unlike the corps) is pretty messed up.

I am sorry guys...but with all due respect but this Marine seems to be trying to hog his 15 mins of limelight.

First of all it was not Operation RED WINGS. It was Operation RED WING.
The source is United States Navy. Please read this summary of action from Michael Murphy's Medal of Honor website. That pretty much debunks what he is saying.

http://www.navy.mil/moh/mpmurphy/soa.html

Also, check this video out from 38.00
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8386422

The dude in this video is Nathaniel 'Lalo' Roberti.He is a Navy SEAL fro SEAL team 10. He was part of the QRF whose Helicopter got shot down and was on the ground searching for Marcus and other guys later on.
HE WAS ON THE GROUND and he pretty much debunks the whole Victory Point synopsis.

Also , if you are interested in knowing the details of what happened on Operation Red Wing on the otherside of Michael Murphy's phone call in detail check this out. What transpired before the rescue was mounted.How the rescue chopper got shot and who was in it.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4480011

Now, make up your mind !!!

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=18988

Non Red Wing related issues with the LS Book.

I agree with the comments that Luttrell definitely showed grit and valour.

Read It!
Most of the comments I have read are screaming ignorance.
If you still have something critical to say after reading Victory Point, be specific and we can discuss it in a level headed manner.

As far as I am concerned, from what I have read so far, Victory Point seem better researched and more accurate that LS. While different in detail, nothing in VP invalidates or minimizes what our boys in on June 28, 2005.

@Terminator
Bro, thanks for those links, it was great to hear from someone that was actually there first hand. However, it is obvious that neither Lalo nor Don has read Victory Point so what could they say to discount what is in it? My advice to them is the same to others here: take a deep breath, then read the book with an open mind before coming to any conclusion.