Posted By Thomas E. Ricks Share

I've been reading an examination by British Col. I.A. Rigden of the British record in counterinsurgency campaigns. Here's the post-1945 scorecard, by his accounting:

  • Wins: 7
    Losses: 5
    Ties: 1
    Incompletes: 2 (Iraq and Afghanistan)

Well, it's a tough league.

Rigden has an interesting bio -- he commanded a Gurkha battalion in Afghanistan, and spent seven years in company command. That's more troop time than most U.S. Army officers probably get in 20-year careers. Anyone out there who knows how the British Army works that very different approach to officer management? 

AdamKR/flickr

EXPLORE:BRITAIN, MILITARY
 

JPWREL

11:41 AM ET

May 26, 2010

A salient and most relevant

A salient and most relevant point made by Col. Rigden is as follows:
“The fifth premise is do not fight a war or campaign that you cannot win. There is a potential decision point in the planning or conduct of every war or campaign in which the astute leader may conclude that the costs of success or risks of failure far outweighs the benefits of any success. If the state being supported is on the verge of collapse and enjoys little popular support it may be too late or too expensive to start a counter- insurgency campaign. Likewise, if there is a long-standing stalemate with equal claims to legitimacy, there is little chance of resolution between the sides. No amount of military action or information operations will win the people over if the nation is truly divided. It may be that the situation must be left to resolve itself. The British experience in Palestine and Aden are clear examples of campaigns which were unwinnable and resulted in British withdrawal. Determining this decision point in the actual conduct of war is extremely difficult. Recognizing its inevitability while still in the strategy formulation or campaign planning stage is genius; acting on it is the essence of moral courage.” If American military and political leadership possess one great failure it is its lack of moral courage versus its often-plentiful physical courage and its willingness to substitute thoughtless ‘can do’ bravado for sound strategy.

After years of studying the British military and naval history it is my view that for material, cultural and historical reasons the British Army in particular learns and innovates more slowly than the American Army. The fighting experience of the British Army being longer, deeper and broader than the American gives it an inclination to hold on to traditional norms longer while not automatically assuming what is new is necessarily better.

 

TYRTAIOS

12:31 PM ET

May 26, 2010

In addition:

be that as it may, I would also point out that in past successful counter-insurgencies the British waged, such as in Malaysia and Kenya, they were able to utilize and get away with tactics such as forced relocation of the indigenous populace and savage brutality - something unavailable to American forces, nor them either today.

 

ADMIRAL

2:19 PM ET

May 26, 2010

War lover BS

"they were able to utilize and get away with tactics such as forced relocation of the indigenous populace and savage brutality"

Typical pro imperialist propaganda Bull Shit! The US military uses these tactics all over the world. The US brutalized and murdered the Vietnamese for years. The US "Got away with it." And still does Extreme brutality, torture and murder are part and parcel to Empire.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."

The scoundrel and brute Mattis at least admitted that he enjoys killing people.

FTMC

 

WALKING WOUNDED

1:05 PM ET

May 26, 2010

2 Brit hard cases, Belfast and Palestine...

2 of the Brit COIN hard cases, Belfast and Palestine, saw considerable cash and arms support for terrorist-insurgents being raised in the good ol USA. Populist patriot myths aside, some of that activity was criminal at both ends.

Dudus Coke, whose forces are heavily engaged this week in Jamaica, is known as a trader in the US arms market, using major proceeds from the US drug trade. A cash/ordnance/safe-haven relationship also exists between the US and Mexican narco-insurgents.

Drugs, guns and insurgency go together like the internet and Al Waki. Maybe we should study on applying the COIN pop-centric stuff here in our own cities and pot super-farms, if we really believe in it?

Ex marine company commander and PRT dissident Matthew Hoh's warning re our Pashtunistan quagmire is a somewhat different thesis. But I see many of the same moving parts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/26/AR2009102603394.html
http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/daniel-ellsberg-speaks-with-matthew-hoh-on-afghanistan

 

WATSON

5:12 PM ET

May 26, 2010

They used to call them robber barons

According to the Jamaica Gleaner, the arsenal of the JLP/Dudus Coke forces includes the [strong]Grizzly Big Boar rifle[/strong].

The shoot-out in Kingston rips the mask off the situation in much of the “free” world. The “legitimate” government is a thin layer away from, and organically connected to, warlords who control the population.

 

WATSON

5:14 PM ET

May 26, 2010

I botched the link

It's http://www.largrizzly.com/web/guest/bigboar

 

WALKING WOUNDED

3:25 AM ET

May 27, 2010

.50 ww1 anti-tank rifle

Seems we've come full circle, with tactical urban armor being challenged with the sort of weapon used to pierce WW1 designs that were little better than the hillbilly armored trucks of our 2004-5 nat guardsmen.

 

JPWREL

1:11 PM ET

May 26, 2010

TYRTAIOS, is as right as

TYRTAIOS, is as right as rain. If British or American forces had the ability to conduct operations with the ruthlessness of SS Einsatzgruppen or the Roman’s renowned vengeance to those who would revolt in their rear areas then shear terror might end resistance. We all know about Kitchener’s use of population removal to ‘concentration camps’ during the later stages of the Boer War. However, what is less known is that the Americans during the last stages of the Philippine insurrection used exactly the same ‘concentration camps’ and in some cases were even more over the top as in the wholesale execution of prisoners and burning of whole villages. The prime difference between the public attitudes in the South African War was that the Boer’s were European originated white settlers. The indifference to the slaughter in the Philippines can be imputed to the fact that Filipinos were merely brown people requiring civilizing.

 

FREEMANMF

1:20 PM ET

May 26, 2010

British Officers

"Anyone out there who knows how the British Army works that very different approach to officer management? "

Regimental system, and less institutional positions draining their man-power. British Lieutenants typically have 3+ years of platoon leader time. American Army now promotes them to Captains in 3 years, with at best 12 months PL time.

 

IRONCAPT

1:27 PM ET

May 26, 2010

British Officer system

Tom,
The two biggest differences I noticed with the British Officer system in my six month stint with Her Majesty's Service were the absence of an "Up or Out" policy and promotions based on age, not time in service as an officer.

This probably explains how Col Rigden managed 7 years of company command time. Since promotion boards are based on age, they didn't look at him with his "commissioning year group" as we do here. He may have been commissioned young and the promotion board may have decided that 32, 33, and 34 year old Capt Rigden wasn't ready to be a Major yet. Of course, the commander of his regiment clearly thought he was a capable commander and didn't feel the need to move him to a staff job to give someone else "a turn" as the US military is wont to do. Perhaps all that troop leading time hurt his standing with the promotion board as he wasn't "well rounded" enough. We should all be so lucky.

The lack of an Up or Out policy was a two edged sword. I saw some fantastic 50 year old Majors and some horrible 50 year old Majors. I'm not sure which system is better.

Also, commanding Gurkas isn't always great for an officer's career. It used to be that commanding Gurkas as a Capt or Lt meant you couldn't deploy to Northern Ireland, which used to be the yardstick for operational experience. Of course, Iraq and Afghanistan changed all that.

 

TOM RICKS

1:43 PM ET

May 26, 2010

Thanks, this is helpful

Time to promote you to iron major!
Best,
Tom

 

TYRTAIOS

3:04 PM ET

May 26, 2010

Peter Principle

Long ago before brevet IRONMAJOR came over the horizon to share his valuable observations experiences, an author contributed an article to the “Marine Corps Gazette discussing this very topic.

In that article of yore, which included the British system, he mentioned the Peter Principle which states in part that 'individuals are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent or at best mediocre.'

It would seem the British understand this and recognize over years who will and won't make an outstanding/excellent staff officer and/or company grade commander, but realize his value beyond or outside that will be mediocre – this holds true up the command structure.

 

F

9:13 PM ET

May 26, 2010

In addition to the Regimental

In addition to the Regimental system and the absence of 'up or out,', British companies are commanded by Majors. As a result, they're a bit older and thus potentially have more and broader experience than their American/French counterparts.

As I recall, this issue came up back in Kosovo in the wake of Gen Sir Michael Jackson refusing to carry out Gen Wesley Clark's order to drive the Russians out of the Pristina Airport. Jackson made a comment about the objective not being worth starting World War Three. A commentator (I think it was Hackworth) noted that Jackson had had more command experience by the time he was a Lieutenant-Colonel than Clark did in his entire career, and sided with Jackson (again, memory is fuzzy, but I believe the phrase was along the lines of "Clark wasn't qualified to give that order in the first place"). The whole affair could be the source of several studies on the problems of coalitions with separate national chains of command, the conflict of tactical objectives in strategic contexts, and the role of individual incidents in driving future fleet acquisitions of wheeled vehicles.

Anyway, getting back to the original issue, the Brit model is replicated for the most part throughout the Commonwealth, which is relevant if you're into the whole ABCA thing, or you see a future in UN Peacekeeping, where India and Pakistan routinely deploy Brigade + sized formations.

 

JPWREL

3:29 PM ET

May 26, 2010

Military bearing

This 1 ½ minute You Tube of the Irish Guards ‘Trouping the Colour’ is a delight. It is amazing that in this day an age actual first rate combat units like this one can still drill beautifully and within weeks deploy to Afghanistan and relieve their Welsh Guard brothers is remarkable. There is something to be said for tradition and military bearing. Notice the black faces in the IG - a long time coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVZzkzSPUac

 

ADMIRAL

3:37 PM ET

May 26, 2010

Typical British Officer

The real face COIN and Imperialism. The British war criminals had a grand old time in Kenya, indeed! Concentration camps, mass executions, torture, rape, etc... British officers are racist scum.

"They wouldn’t say a thing, of course, and one of them, a tall coal-black bastard, kept grinning at me, real insolent. I slapped him hard, but he kept right on grinning at me, so I kicked him in the balls as hard as I could. He went down in a heap but when he finally got up on his feet he grinned at me again and I snapped, I really did. I stuck my revolver right in his grinning mouth and I said something, I don’t remember what, and I pulled the trigger. His brains went all over the side of the police station. The other two Mickeys were standing there looking blank. I said to them that if they didn’t tell me where to find the rest of the gang I’d kill them too. They didn’t say a word so I shot them both. One wasn’t dead so I shot him in the ear. When the sub-inspector drove up, I told him that the Mickeys tried to escape. He didn’t believe me but all he said was ‘bury them and see the wall is cleared up.’"

 

TYRTAIOS

4:02 PM ET

May 26, 2010

I remember watching a British

I remember watching a British colonial constabulary officer slapping a native soldier's face and asking him how that felt. The soldier's reply was that he was a member of Her Majesty's constabulary and felt no pain. Moving down the ranks, the officer noticed a native soldier's manhood hanging-out and slapped it hard with his swagger stick. When asked how that felt, the native solider replied he felt no pain either since it belonged to the man in the second rank behind him!

Is this the same guy you are referring to in Kenya Admiral - you're not really an Admiral are you?

 

ADMIRAL

4:47 PM ET

May 26, 2010

Straw Man

I show the real side of the mythical British Officer enforcing real COIN tactics, and it get´s turned around to my moniker. People can run from the facts all they want, but they still remain facts. The fact of the matter is that British officers are racist pigs that have no issue with torturing and murdering their captives especially when they are people of color. The history of their brutal crimes are well documented.

FTMC

 

MATTHEW DOYE

11:01 PM ET

May 26, 2010

Racist Officers?

Admiral likes to define all British Officers as racist, this is an error. In doing this he makes the mistake of equating the undoubtedly racist attitudes and behaviour of previous generations of officers with those of today and recent history.
`
Like any public institution, the British Army broadly reflects the society from which it is drawn; thus, in our more racist past, both the officers and men of the British Army tended to be equally as racist. As society has changed, the Army has changed too, albeit more slowly due to institutional inertia.
`
To charge today's officers collectively with racism is to ignore the reality of today's Army and the society from which it recruits. There will be some who still harbour those outdated attitudes but, as in wider society, they are increasingly rare and are now more likely to be weeded out.

 

JPWREL

8:32 AM ET

May 27, 2010

MATTHEW DOYE, thanks for the

MATTHEW DOYE, thanks for the sensible comment. All army’s have racist elements in their past and the British Army was certainly one of these. However, it was certainly no more racist than the American Army at its worst. I was going to reply to ‘ADMIRAL’ but since he seems to be off his medication these days I decided to comment on your posting.

 

ADMIRAL

5:30 PM ET

May 27, 2010

"Off his meds."

"Off his meds." This comment implies that one is mentally ill. This tactic was employed ruthlessly by the communist party of the USSR.

FTMC

 

WALKTHEWALK

12:00 AM ET

May 27, 2010

All armies were more or less racist--and are hopefully less now

Let's not forget that our army--any army for that matter--can be racist. Hopefully we are more aware of the problem, but were we any less racist in Vietnam than the British were in dealing with the Mau Mau or the French with Algeria? One thing that British administrations had--and I don't know if this carried over to the army--was a requirement that colonial administrators be able to speak and write the language of the area. While the State Department gives a stab at this there are no exams as there were for British Colonial administrators. Yes, we have the Army Language School in Monterrey etc. but how many troops really have a grasp of the very different and complex cultures they are dealing with?
So let's not just say all British officers are pigs.
The issue was company officer training etc--not whether we like the end product.
As to the critics show us a force that has been effective as have the British but have never had a tinge or racism. Don't think we see that--The French, the Italians (gassing Ethiopians) all had their racist episodes--let's not forget that all those now seemingly touchy-feely governments in Europe came from colonial powers, colonial powers that were to a greater or lesser extent racist. Even the Greenlanders sometimes don't have kind things to say about the Danes. And the newer powers similarly have neocolonial issues with some racism attached--vide China and Tibet.

So how's about we drift back to the point --and also look at whether their company and regimental equiping structure is different, whether the training and other systems are different or the same and what if any difference this makes.

On parade ground drill, I think having grown up partly in Britain that I can say that by and large any British unit--from any branch of service--will have better order, be better at parade ground drill than most US units other than special drill units such as the Marine Corps drill team etc. It's just something they do and pride themselves on. In comparison we look many times as if we are shambling.

But that doesn't mean they are better--only different.

 

Thomas E. Ricks covered the U.S. military for the Washington Post from 2000 through 2008.

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