Far to many people see China as some dis-interested Power that does not have any goals past making money, hmmm.....must be that Vietnam, Australia, Japan, the PI and other Pacific Rim Countries that are so worried are wrong. Your points on the current President are excellent and concise. That fact that many will use ANY chance to go after Bush again is also spot on, we could be talking about NASA or Deep Sea Exploration and someone will try to link the topic to Bush. Really folks, on Bush, let go, he is gone.

Yes Don, Iraq and Afghanistan are why we are in so much debt, nothing else, sure, the huge amount of entitlements that the Feds pay out-SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc...The spending in the past, the way the system is set up can speak to a huge chunk of it but really, it is still on Bush. I tripped the other day, what made me trip? Bush! A thunderstorm came and why did it rain on my day off? Bush! It really is all on Bush, I am actually quite close to discovering that Bush was the Anti-Christ and was secretly mentioned in a previously unknown portion of the Bible, if only some of you could give me the links I need I could prove it! ;)
Cheers Don :)

The topic was about China and how their influence has grown and on speculation that they are actually going to get the most out of the Iraq War, not the US or the Iraqi's. You went on a rant about debt due to the wars and blamed everything on Bush. China will and always has exploited whatever chance they have had to spread their influence-Panama, South America, Africa, etc...are just a few "small" examples. Any chance they get they will do this, the war had little if any influence on that, the only thing that Bush may have done is pushed Iran closer to China but it was not exactly like they were breaking down our door either, we do have a bit of history with them last time I checked. Your rant aside, you cannot blame Bush for everything and certainly not much on this topic since China would have become closer with Iran just the same and would and shall continue to fill any vacum it can to gain power. It is just the nature of the beast and not on Bush. At some point, you and more than a few others on here are going to have to stop blaming everything on the last administration, it is amazing what people try to link to Bush, look at the other China post. lol Just let it go Don, you will be better off, I am very upset with the current administration but I also understand that not everything that goes on can be blamed on him to include floods, swarms of locusts and the like. He will get a lot wrong and some right, but no matter what when he is gone I will not hold a visceral hatred of him the way many who post seem to hold onto for Bush.
I still love your posts though Don! They always keep me smiling :)
Cheers!

I have no problem with China doing any of that, like I said, nature of the beast, but far too often people will use anything they can to link it to Bush. Sorry man, it is old and you see it all the time on this blog, nothing wrong with saying he screwed up, he did. Nothing wrong with saying that a lot of the things he did were wrong, they were. Some of the links and off topic rants and even conspiracies that many post are just plain crazy and if they were at least on topic I would not care but man...soooooo many are not. So, my opinion on this is below, I think I stated it pretty clearly in my post to you, that whatever Bush did it would be irrelevant to the relationship between China and Iran.

I think you are missing my main point, while the President gets the glory or the horror as the head of state, I do not think it would have made a difference either way how China acted on anything as far as Bush going into Iraq, ie; China would have done whatever it was going to do no matter what Bush did. Also, another point I am making is that far too often many people use anything they can as a link to go off about Bush and it gets old, sounds like a lot of tears over spilt milk to me, move on and see what can be done to prevent it in the future or how to correct things and let's be honest, many would blame the weather on the guy if they could. I think harping on the same thing from the past all the time does about as much good as picking a scab and while many might get a little S&M thrill out of that type of action it is not really healthy. Cheers :)

China was "beating our brains" out in a lot of places around the world before we went into Iraq and unfortunately we were not doing much to counter them. American Exceptionalism is a good thing in my opinion and my "fetish", lol, is spot on, look at your last paragraph, it is all about venting for you and people who do nothing but post like that, sorry man, I do not agree with it. Far to many people just cannot and will not ever let go and I am not sure how talking about the past will do any good unless you talk about how to prevent it in the future and give solutions or at least ideas. Honestly, how many of the bashers do that? I do not recall many who do nothing but Bush bash talk about how to prevent those mistakes in the future, heck, the nearest thing I hear to an idea is to put him on trial, really? That is an idea? Come on, people cannot be serious or realistic if they think that.
Look, I know I am never going to convince you to stop the venting either, I actually enjoy your posts, really, I do, they are out there at times but still you never take it personal and enjoy the conversation but forgive me if I do not think it is a good thing to dwell on something forever without a constructive way ahead to go with it. Dude, you will give yourself an ulcer if you have not already, lighten up, pour a glass of Whiskey, smoke a cigar and ponder a positive way ahead, much better on the soul. It is what I plan to do when I am home next :)

I ignored your previous posting about people being manipulated by the media and support the troops, etc...because all it does is show that you are again going the conspiracy route, but I do enjoy it, and yeah, you are right, if I say that you should not dwell on Bush or blame him for the sky falling it means I am a big meanie who does not care about people or "victims'' of war, blah, blah, blah....lol Great link Don, it is why I always enjoy your posts, you always go for the big "reach". Anyway, cheers brother, I will have that whiskey for ya! ;)

Of Course it is chatter, it is a blog for people who are bored, who like to read up on current events who have lots of free time on their hands and strong opinions. Sheesh, what else are we supposed to do on here?! ;)

I do not think that was ever a question nor did I say that it was wrong to do so in that manner, what is wrong is when ANY excuse is used to try to link whatever topic is up to Bush, it takes away from the argument and then quickly goes down hill into a "Bush is-insert adjective". You spoke to me on the other China post when I addressed a poster that attempted to link the past administration to possible similar actions in the US that happened in China, are you saying that poster was not in a bit of a reach to try to link PRC atrocities to what the past administration did in regard to water boarding? I think it was and is a classic example of linking anything and everything to the Bush
Administration. Bush screwed up a lot and I think "Rummy" did even more of that IMHO but the continued attempts to link anything and everything to Bush is a bit over the top for me.
As for the war, the consequences of the iraq War are wide and while I agree with going into Iraq I do not agree with the way it was done and it often drives me nuts that it was handled so poorly but no matter what happened, even if we did not go to war in Iraq I can pretty much promise you that China would still have closer relations with Iran than we would and that the Chinese will always pursue their own self interest over anything else, it is just the nature of the beast,we do the same thing all the time. So, blaming Bush for China being closer with Iran to me is a bit much and I do not agree with the idea.

Look, when people cannot get the basic point, ie; the China would do what China wants' to do no matter what I have a habit of going into detail, I make assumptions on people's ability to understand, my mistake. As for the Bush bash, it is usually the way it goes and Don is notorious for it as are many others, you will see it, trust me, this is more of a flow from other posts.