Posted By Thomas E. Ricks Share

On the other hand, Anthony Cordesman of CSIS is one old school intel guy who likes the Flynn report. Here is his view of it:

Fixing Intel is one of the most insightful reports I have ever read on combatintelligence, and one that tracks all too well with the lessons that should be learned from Vietnam and Iraq.

I was Director of Intelligence Assessment in the Office of the Secretary of Defense at the end of the Vietnam War, and had to write a post mortem on the collapse. While it was a different war, and the collapse occurred under very different conditions, intelligence failures represented the same tendency to focus on the threat and ignore the range of politic-military and economic factors affecting South Vietnam. This was coupled to excessive classification and above all, to reporting systems that left military advisors largely in charge of assessing the ARVN while intelligence focused on heavily compartmented approaches to the threat.

This leads me to make some additional suggestions regarding the improvements that are need in both intelligence and the analysis of the war:

Intelligence has never really come to grips with the problem of net assessment. The intelligence community seems to have largely backed way from net assessment. So, however, have the US military or the Department of Defense. It is possible to argue that net assessment should be the function of plan, operations, and operations research and not intelligence. As Fixing Intel points out, however, intelligence must look beyond the threat and do so at every level. This sometimes may mean crossing the line into assessing the impact of plans, operations, and civilian activity. Yet, intelligence may well be the best place to conduct both net assessment and fusion analysis in a war that involve so many foreign actors involved in so many different activities.

Wars like Afghanistan are not red or threat side versus US or blue wars. They are dominated by the performance of threat versus host country forces, each of which is fragmented into  different regional, ethnic, sectarian, and tribal groups. Intelligence collection and analysis should be more capable of direct net assessment of these factions than any other element of the military and US analysis community. Friendlies and allies are never going to fully share US goals and interests, and key friendlies and allies will often be divided, suspect, and sometimes covertly hostile.

A realistic net intelligence assessment is needed to deal with the full mix of foreign activities and motives. It also is need to deal with problems like corruption and ties to power brokers, ANSF officers and personnel with ties to the enemy and separate interests, and the fact that the host country is and must be a major intelligence target or will be a critically understated problem in every aspect of operations and planning.

Compartmented analysis that separates intelligence on the threat and partner, mentor, and trainer analysis of host country forces We lost the war in Vietnam for many reasons, but one was that we never had truly honest assessments of ARVN forces, and direct comparisons of ARVN and threat forces done in detailed net assessment terms. In fact, our training and rating experience in Iraq and Afghanistan closely tracks with the mistakes of Vietnam (and our brief training effort in Lebanon in the early 1980s.) The CM readiness ratings for Afghan forces have so far been unreliable at best, and have been worst in providing credible ratings of the units described as CM-1 or the lead. They do not honestly reflect combat performance, actual leadership quality, and how units evolve or devolve over time seeming to ignore real world factors like attrition, overdeployment and combat fatigue, and actual equipment holdings and readiness. There often are other reports covering such issues as well as the loyalties of key officers and officials but often in forms that make direct net assessment and comparability impossible.

Someone is needed to provide an objective, outside view of host country and ANSF performance and loyalty, and this need to be done in a net assessment context. If this is not the task of the intelligence community, whose task is it?

Assessing Allies as an Intelligence Target:  This is equally true of assessments of the activities of our NATO/ISAF allies. Each pursues somewhat different goals, and sometimes operates under sharp national restrictions and caveats. There often is no unity of effort within a given allied country, and there are significant differences between some allied country military and aid efforts. These too are legitimate intelligence targets and the proper subject of net assessment. Moreover, as Fixing Intel points out, it is far too easy to focus on secrecy in this case host country and allied sensitivity. Here, it is important to point out that it took years to overcome this reality in NATO. Ironically, it was not until the MBFR exercise in the 1960s that it became clear just how damaging it was to ignore the fact that there were five different national concepts of how to fight a ground war, in the central region (ignoring two more in NORTHAG), and similar differences in planning for the air war plus two different internal NATO approaches to air operations. It took transparency and dialog not secrecy and fear of confrontation to deal with these issues.

A War for Political Influence and Control But Also a War of Political Attrition:  Fixing Intel also points out in a number of places that the war is political and that it is critical to know the in country situation down to the district level. The paper may well be error, however, in stating that, for the most part, that is where the war is being fought, which means,  unavoidably, that is where it is being won or lost.

All counterinsurgency is local in one sense, but it is increasingly international in another. Insurgents understand that they can conduct attacks and strategic communications designed to exploit US-host country government, internal ethnic and sectarian, and intra-NATO/ISAF fracture lines and sensitivities. Anyone who reads Mao, or the host of Chinese case studies of the war against the Kuomintang, realizes that Korea and Vietnam were scarcely the first wars in which insurgents attacked both the national government and outside advisors at the political and military level.

In the case of Afghanistan, it is critical to know the degree to which the Taliban and Al Qaida explicitly seek to exploit such political differences in the host country political structure, in US strategic and political commitment to the war, and within NATO and ISAF countries. As the  paper points out, these are strategic and not tactical issues. They also, however, are at least as critical over time as understanding the political dimension of war at the district level. 

The Political, Prompt Justice, and Shadow Government Role of the Taliban and Other Insurgents: Looking at the Taliban and Insurgents Ideology, Political Tactics, and Shadow Structures.

This analysis also requires more focus on what each elements of the insurgency is doing in terms of promoting its ideology, it local and broader political actions, how it affects local economics and the justice system, and how it is establishing mixes of shadow governments, networks of influence, and stay behinds and infiltrators. Intelligence needs to look beyond identifying the bad guys, and examine how they operate in influencing and controlling the population as objectively as possible. This does not come from focusing on negative actions and abuses, important as these are to both understanding the Taliban, Haqqani, Al Qaida, etc. The history of insurgencies is usually a history of their ability to mix incentives with ruthless behavior, and the quality of their ability to change, co-opt, or destroy local power structures without alienating the population. In the past, far too much analysis portrayed insurgents only in negative terms and assumed they were unpopular. 

As analysts like Fred and Kim Kagan have pointed out, far too little effort went into establishing the size, character, and actions of the shadow governments and other insurgent actors in given areas. The same was true of the links between insurgents and contractors, officials, officers, and key aspects of the economy like narcotics, transportation, etc. If the Afghan insurgents are as rigid as AQI was during the critical phases of the Anbar campaign, this may not matter, but one should look at other movements that began with rigid approaches and adapted over time like the KDP, Shining Path, etc.  

Counterintelligence: Counterintelligence will be particularly important as progress is made in the Clear, Hold, and Build phases. Past insurgencies show that insurgent networks not only learn how to disperse and hide under tactical pressure, but become extremely sophistication in infiltrating, deploying sleepers and stay behinds.

The failure to honestly address these issues was critical in Vietnam. The community addressed part of the problem, but could never come to grips with just how many individuals in South Vietnam had ties to, provided services to, or were part of the threat. 

These issues will be even more complicated in Afghanistan than they were in Vietnam or Iraq. Dual loyalties or willingness to deal with any source power to protect, self/family/clan are more complex and more scattered. So is the impact of the fear the US will lose or leave, the need to deal with the Taliban to survive or prosper, the lack of reason to support the Afghan government, the impact of tribal and other differences, etc.

It is easy to talk about clear, but it is far from obvious what this really means, or how long it will take. It will be further complicated if amnesty programs take hold and provide a potential cover for insurgents. Even today, most vetting is more theory than practice in a young society with few real personal records, and so many divided loyalties.

Afghan and Allied HUMINT: The paper does an excellent job of highlighting the need for grassroots intelligence and HUMINT at the battalion level and below. It does not, however, address the need to develop more systematic efforts to create joint Afghan, allied, and US intelligence fusion and tie HUMINT together at higher levels.

Transferring Intelligence Responsibility I do not find plans to make significant transfers of responsibility to the ANSF as early as mid-2011 to be credible. I do find plans to do this as soon as possible to be absolutely essential. This means that creating truly effective host country intelligence structures is a critical aspect of Fixing Intel.

Population Centers and Stability Operations Information Centers: The paper may focus too much on the term District, and be driven too much by the fact that the fighting to date has been largely tactical and outside the main population centers. Virtually every element of Shape, Clear, Hold, Build, and Transfer will have to focus on key population clusters or centers to be effective.

Like the operations involved, intelligence and other assessments will generally cross district lines and/or be more urban (in an Afghan sense) than rural. The Helmand River Valley and Khandahar are just two key examples. They also illustrate the fact that different intelligence collection, analysis, and metrics will often be needed to deal with each major population cluster, and that standardizing them on a national level will be dysfunctional.

Fixing Intel focuses on ready access and transparency analyzing district level stability  operations, but this may well be even more critical in terms of population clusters -- where efforts to cut across any stovepipes and administrative lines and do so in net assessment terms may be even more critical.

As the paper points out, this will be equally critical at the Regional Command level. Regional boundaries often do not lend themselves natural to population centric operations. They were not designed for this purpose. Regional Commands are, however, the logical Fusion Centers to look at both the entire structure of Shape, Clear, Hold, Build, and Transfer not simply the red side and do so both by cluster and in comparative ways. Such analysis is likely to be far more productive than region-wide analysis that cannot be tied to the operational and strategic goals of providing successful operations focused on key populations.

Dealing with the Threat from the State Department and Aid Community To be successful, however, the analysis of Shape, Clear, Hold, Build, and Transfer will have to address issues that the State Department, AID, and intelligence community have so far failed to address in any convincing form: how to measure success in Shape, Clear, Hold, Build, and Transfer at the political, economic, and rule of law levels.

Neither the narratives nor the metrics developed to date in either Afghanistan or Iraq have much credibility. Far too often they are what David Kilcullen refers to as input metrics: statements that money has been spent, a project has been started or completed, or that actions have had some positive effect without any reference in terms of how well it meets a validated requirement or the scale of impact on a given area or part of the population. In Iraq's case, this has been partially balanced by shifting from input metrics to survey data in the maturity model, but the end results have uncertain focus and credibility. The entire aid community US, UNAMA, allied, and NGO has become a nightmare of stovepiped programs without meaningful validation of requirements, proper financial transparency and auditing, and measures of effectiveness. A lack of basic management effort is complicated by national branding, rapid rotation, and the use of contractors and officials that are corrupt and/or linked to the Taliban at least to the extent of buying it off to complete projects.

There is a need for far better intelligence on aid activity than exists to date, and this needs to be tied to narratives and metrics that focus on what aid does to win the war and do so at the scale and with lasting effect necessary to deal with entire population centers. In other cases, national econometric data are generated but without any convincing break down by key element of the population, credible analysis of unemployment and underemployment as it impacts on perceptions and the willingness of young men to act as insurgents, or data on key factors like income distribution. There is a chronic lack of sectoral analysis covering key areas like agriculture. 

Broad stoplight color coding is often used to describe the quality of governance and justice system often emphasizing positive trends and with little regard to the seriousness of corruption or whether service good or bad are provided to broad parts of the population. Any positive trend is reported as progress, regardless of how much of the population it actually affects and how given elements of the population see the trends in Afghan politics, governance, and rule of law/prompt justice.

Key issues like corruption, and equity of effort, and the role of power brokers are dealt with only in generalities if at all although understanding the impact of the networks of corrupt  officers, officials, contractors, and power brokers will be as important to overall success as understanding the networks of insurgents.

This again raises questions about the function of intelligence in providing the kind of fusion needed to win the war. Some independent structure is needed that can integrate assessment of the military situation with the political, economic, demographic, and ideological trends that determine the success of Shape, Clear, Hold, Build, and Transfer in each key population center. These efforts need to be independent, honest self-critical of progress, and cut across  stovepipes and bureaucratic lines. Intelligence may not be the place to do this, but if not, small Strategic Assessment Groups need to be established for each major population objective in the campaign that include intelligence, plans and ops, and civil representatives.

Pakistan and Iran: Good as Fixing Intel is, it tends to perpetuate one of the key problems in the intelligence effort throughout the war. Pakistan, Iran, and other neighboring states are key part of the conflict. Furthermore, no amount of polite, politically correct rhetoric, can disguise the fact that Pakistan is an ally only to the limited point where it perceives its interest coincide with ours, it is incentivized to cooperate, or it is pressured to cooperate. Dancing around this reality has essentially made analysis of Pakistan an entirely separate and compartmented area. The role of Iran presents similar problems. Effective fusion cannot ignore the impact of the other half of the war.

Strategic Communications: As a final comment, Fixing Intel repeatedly focuses on the need for internal transparency and to fight the tendency towards overclassification and compartmentation. This reflects a valid concern, and a tacit recognition of the fact that one never knows whether one is better off shooting the enemy, or ones own public affairs and security officers. All three actions generally have the same positive effect.

More seriously, the last eight months have seen a major deterioration in confidence that the war can be won, and in support for the conflict by both the US and its NATO/ISAF allies, This has been compounded by a sharp drop in the President's popularity, and the weak handling and mistakes surrounding the drafting and supporting efforts for his new strategy in Washington. It may not be tactful to point out just how much the popular war has moved towards calls for an exit strategy, and how serious the level of Congressional and media doubt has become. The fact is, however, that the country team must now demonstrate competence, unity, and progress or  lose the war.

This raises a key issue not addressed in Fixing Intel. How can the release of unclassified assessments and metrics reverse this situation and help win. Until the recent release of new unclassified metrics by USCENTCOM, no element of the US military or Executive Branch began to address this issue. The fact is, however, that intelligence should be a key element of a process of strategic communications that helps to correct the mistakes made in presenting and supporting the President's speech, that reinforces the broad themes raised in the testimony to Congress that followed, that establishes broad credibility, and shapes as much of the reporting on the war and perceptions of its progress as possible. This is as critical a part of Fixing Intel as any addressed in the paper.

Alex Wong/Getty Images

 

JAFFIR

7:30 PM ET

January 8, 2010

its a personal business

Iraq and Afghanistan are intel wars and they will be won or lost on the quality of the Humint collected and the brutal honesty of the assessments pushed forward. How do you make the field embrace more risk? How does an intel leadership, who never risked danger themselves, perhaps avoided it, encourage bright young things to make the hard decisions?

 

STEVE358

8:07 PM ET

January 8, 2010

A Capstone

For months now, I have been attending CSIS affairs, and watching Dr. Cordesman give his increasingly blunt assessments and incisive evaluations of a situation that is not giving him comfort.

I hope somebody starts to do more than just listen to him... soon.

Steve

 

TYRTAIOS

8:24 PM ET

January 8, 2010

Indeed, someone better start

Indeed, someone better start listening soon. General time is a relentless field marshal, and we are up against him - running out of time.

Concerning Mr. Cordesman's remark about Vietnam, "While it was a different war, and the collapse occurred under very different conditions." The Professor may want to hold that thought,i.e. Vietnamization/training-up the Afghan Army (Afghanization); pulling our ground forces out; and eventually cutting-off funding to a government America became war weary over.

 

WALKING WOUNDED

10:35 PM ET

January 12, 2010

The best Afstan parallels

are previous euro-pashtun wars, in the same country, over the last 200 years.

I guess it is worth noting that going into VN, we ignored and minimized the French-Viet Minh war experience, and classified our own Pentagon Papers history of the US involvement. Can't have congress and voters reading an honest assessment, can we?

Fixing intel begins at home. The Afstan equivalent of Lt. Tom Dooley, M.D. must be spinning in his grave.

 

CMSBELT

11:38 PM ET

January 8, 2010

Net Assessment

Absolutely! The concept of Operational Net Assessment, as a subcomponent of Effects Based Operations, was the baby thrown out with the bath water when EBO was tossed away. Intelligence, as an assessment of enemy capability and intentions, really only makes sense when related to friendly capabilities and plans.

It is critical to integrate G2/J2 (Intelligence) with G3/J3 (Operations). Keeping the two functions in separate stovepipes makes no practical sense, yet we keep on doing things in this manner. And, the higher the echelon the further separation--resulting in the most damage caused. What kind of crisis will it take to overcome bureaucratic intertia and turf protection into to effectively bring these interdependent functions together?

 

JPWREL

1:29 PM ET

January 9, 2010

It is irrelevant

To be frank I find Gen. Flynn’s and Cordesman’s comments on needed intelligence reform of procedures and methods to be very sensible and probably theoretically the right thing to do. However, in the long run I don’t think it will make a damn bit of difference. Such tweaking of our performance in intelligence gathering and assessment, battlefield tactics and technique seem to me nothing more than the proverbial shifting around the deck chairs on the Titanic. A war perhaps even more futile than that senseless exercise on that fated ship since it is as obvious that we cannot sustain domestic moral for a long-term war. In fact, Gen. Cordesman himself thinks a combat presence of as long as ten years or more with casualties growing substantially.

The American people are now more frequently beginning to ask what’s in this war for them? How does repeating the War in Vietnam in Af/Pak serve our interests here at home? Every politician, every party, every special interest group, even the armed forces have a different answer to these questions indicating like in Vietnam a complete lack of public and political consensus on the wars rational and meaning. History proves modern politically pluralistic states cannot sustain a long-term commitment to war without a general consensus as to the wars necessity. Even the authoritarian Soviet Union found a lack of political unity about their war in Afghanistan damaging to its credibility in the eyes of its own politically castrated people.

And lastly, the American people are NOT part of this war. Except for a few military families we do not send our loved ones to it nor are we asked even to pay for it by either raising taxes or buying ‘war on terror bonds’. To pay for the wars we borrow money from countries which we have massive trade deficits since they have the dollar reserves. These wars have fallen disproportionally upon a small slice of America who carries the burden for the rest. Patronizing calling the troops who serve hero’s and wearing ‘Support the Troops’ ribbons is hardy a comparable sacrifice on the part of the people even if it does assuage their consciouses.

In this war no sacrifice is to too great to NOT ASK the American people to bear.

There, my rant.

 

JAFFIR

2:31 PM ET

January 9, 2010

on the other hand

These wars are replete with volunteers. The Citizenry might be a bit boring or getting bored with "we support the soldiers', but the fact is, the soldiers are ready to get on the planes, especially the elite military and civilian intel units. No? Anyone disagree?

The soldiers and intel units simply want to be better led, not taken home.

Jaffir

 

RUBBER DUCKY

2:45 PM ET

January 9, 2010

No draft? No skin in the game.

Volunteers yes, but straining the military's ability to cover all its numbers beyond prudence and - if another hotspot flares up - beyond ability to deal with.

With a draft, the entire nation would be engaged in a personal, meaningful way, Congress would be making judgments based on the attitudes of folks back home with kids at risk and not on some abstract idea of national defense, and the nation's elites, the decision makers and decision influencers, would be viewing this whole involvement through a subjective lens and not as some part of a Great Game.

Had the previous Administration needed to mobilize the draft to invade Iraq ... no invasion. And no lost six years in Afghanistan.

The AVF is just fine for little wars and the violent peace, but sustained combat in two theaters should be the business of the whole nation and not just of the hired guns who've volunteered. A draft changes everything. It should. War is too important to be left to Republicans.

 

JPWREL

2:59 PM ET

January 9, 2010

No doubt, my son is a Navy

No doubt, my son is a Navy SEAL and training and deploying with his team is what he lives for. Like a fireman he could care less the reason for the fire merely that it is his job to put the fire out. They will go and do what they do cheerfully no matter the location or reason. However, it is not the purpose to fight wars, even half ass wars like Iraq and Af/Pak merely to amuse the troops and give them something to do. We don’t fight wars to give the Military Channel something to program. Waging war, any kind of war must have a legitimate national purpose fully understood and accepted by the public, in my view that does not exist. And is long past achieving in this war.

Seemingly, we are in these wars for no apparent reasons, which could garner a universal consensus among the American people. Neither do even our closest allies fully trust our motives and competence. These two weaknesses will end up being our Achilles heel. Cordesman and Flynn, both good men, can recommend all sorts of changes in our intelligence methods but in the end because these wars have never been rooted in common sense it will end badly for both us the Iraqi’s and the Afghans.

 

HUNTER

8:05 AM ET

January 11, 2010

Oh come on

"no apparent reasons" Really? I don't like these conflicts and certainly wish we could resolve them. But 2 separate Congressional decisions started these wars, and 2 Presidents (and their administrations) have perpetuated them. There's a long laundry list of real (and imagined) reasons, some of which we know, and some which are secret (but many of those we can infer). We can assume they are all idiots (and some maybe are) but some of them have reasons. They may be disagreeable or even nefarious.

I concur that the American populace hasn't been asked to deliver much of anything to the fight. One could argue that they deliver the money as taxpayers. I would rather see some national action to make things more apparent - a call for conservation, victory gardens, car-pooling...things which would make us less dependent on foreign oil. Or a renewed emphasis on American manufacturing, which would rejuvenate the economy and insulate us from foreign trade gaps. Bush failed to do that and sent the people to the mall. But Obama has fallen into the same trap and has not corrected the earlier error. I don't share your sentiment on a draft, but we have talked long enough about that before.

Our military in macro, is like your son in micro, firefighters...ready to fight any fire no matter the cause. We should stop whining about the things on the periphery and start planning, prepping, and resourcing the proper execution to fulfill those reasons.

Noteworthy here - with the notable exception of Ricks Iraq unraveling posts the media ain't saying shit about Iraq these days. Something must be working there.

Signed,
Another firefighter

 

STEVE358

2:44 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Civil/Mil

I like the military approach to Lessons Learned, but the accurate and valuable lessons sometimes don't float to the top, or get lost in the swamp of slogans in field guides and manuals.

In Northern Iraq in 2008, then-MG Mark Hertling was given the assignment to engage his division (MND-North) in supporting civilian stabilization and reconstruction. And he faced the same information and creativity gap. As he said many times (paraphrasing): They did not train us at West Point to lead (Fill in the blanks: a Women's Empowerment Conference; Energy/Oil Initiative; Drought Mitigation Strategy; or, an Agricultural Reconstruction Program.

So he became part-ambassador, part-economic developer, and part-civil rights activist---in addition to the regular and complex military assignment.

To do it, though, he had to fill the gap, by creating a broad civil, military, economic intelligence framework. Tracking black market oil shipments, building economic and agricultural sector value chains, and, on the creative civilian side, using his helicopters and "stars" to bring Iraqis together at problems and problem sites. "Helicopter Diplomacy"---bringing Iraqi Ministers out to Northern Iraq, to stand on a bridge, or at the site of a drought problem, along with other ministerial staff, US DoD/DoS, and aid parties made a huge difference in linking Iraq together in 2008.

What was he really doing? First, he build a Common Operating Picture (COP) that encompassed all the pieces needed to see and guide solutions across the applicable complex civilian/political/economic/military mission. Second, he used that COP as the basis to create targets and strategies that linked all the pieces into a coherent effort. Last, he engaged the right parties, whether Iraqis, civilians or military, into a cooperative effort that made it clear that while we could help, it was an Iraqi mission, not a US one.

Tom has already heard my opinion that, as an example, Hertlng's role in the September 2008 stand-off between the Central Government and Peshmerga forces at Khanakin out to at least warrant a chapter or two in his final book on Iraq, but, in this matter, you have clear example of the same problem faced and addressed (even drawing broadly across Dr. Cordesman's problem definitions.

Granted, the complexity of the multi-national, multi-actor Afghan Mission, and the larger informational void at the starting point, I have confidence, from working with MG Hertling, MG Mark Zamzow (MNF-I) and others in Iraq in 2008, that the intellectual resources reside in the Army leadership to force and obtain the intelligence framework and COP needed, once the mission is properly defined.

Is the mission defined yet? Let's hope so, and that MG Flynn's report is evidence that he is pressing forward.

 

JAFFIR

2:55 PM ET

January 9, 2010

but then again

If West Point does not train officers to handle Iraq, and all its real world complications, then, perhaps, its terribly flawed. The need for the Manassas battle field general is, standing in muddy boots, pointing over a map, is um, over. Maybe the Hypothetical North Korean Generals will storm over the DMZ. But we are in two real wars. We have to win them.

 

JPWREL

3:20 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Jaffir, I am not sure I fully

Jaffir, I am not sure I fully understand your point, but as far as 'winning', whatever that means in Iraq and Af/Pak, I am afraid that is off the table. Winning implies the accrual of some positive achievement proportional to the investment. When they write the history of these two wars my guess is that positive achievements will few and fleeting, particularly when contrasted with the cost. Ironically, I suspect both sides lose, we the arrogant muscle bound and frustrated giant, and the enemy, impoverishing their country materially and spiritually even more than it is now.

 

STEVE358

3:28 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Steve358

The generals that were significant to Iraq's closure went to school long before this conflict began.

Not surpisingly, all of them came from the "Farm Team" roster of divisional levels of command in Iraq---Petreaus, Odierno, Hertling.

Will the ones for Afghanistan come from that country's farm team, or from the Iraq stable?

Steve

 

JAFFIR

3:36 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Jpwerel

By winning, I mean having our values prevail, as some basic level. Investment to outcome? All that matter is outcome at this point? YA? Or do you want to put this on a cost accounting rating?

 

JAFFIR

3:36 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Jpwerel

By winning, I mean having our values prevail, as some basic level. Investment to outcome? All that matter is outcome at this point? YA? Or do you want to put this on a cost accounting rating?

 

JPWREL

3:49 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Jaffir, of course the cost of

Jaffir, of course the cost of a war counts, there has to some proportionality between the blood and treasure expended and the results. This is particularly true when you are fighting wars of choice that have little to do with wars of national survival.

We make war at our leisure and put it on the tab so it had better count even if one is unconcerned with the blood since the casualties are ‘volunteers’. The latter is seemingly the view of the neocons and Republican Party types who feign concern and empathy for the troops but likely consider them as merely cannon fodder.

 

JPWREL

4:02 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Values? What values would

Values? What values would that be? Maybe you mean a democratic and politically pluralistic society defined by a tolerance for dissent and cultural differences?

For some reason, I don’t see the United States bringing those values or even a fractional part of them to either Iraq or Afghanistan let alone Pakistan.

 

STEVE358

4:36 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Progress starts when?

One thing we know is that progress often follows changes made in recognition of problems.

The combined impact of MG Flynn's Report, the UN Report, and Mr. Cordesman's report, against a context of other related events, certainly constitutes a disclosure of problems similar to what was recognized in 2006/7 in Iraq.

I was proud to help out when Ambassador Crocker called for experienced civilians to join the Civilian Surge in Iraq, and proud of the accomplishment of the both surges, and their success in extracting the US from a very serious debacle. (Winning was not the goal, nor the outcome that will be reported in the history books).

A little strange this time, but...First, we announce the strategy, ways and means in December, and now we are defining the problem.

OK, it doesn't make sense, but it is a start.

 

RUBBER DUCKY

4:39 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Perhaps...

Perhaps someone might state the national interest involved here. 'Not losing' is a profoundly stupid reason to continue a war.

 

STEVE358

4:51 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Steve358

Have to define the problem first, then you can figure out the national interests at stake, and whether "backing out," versus "not losing," may be a desirable outcome.

One step at a time (sort of jitterbuggy, though).

 

JPWREL

5:14 PM ET

January 9, 2010

So starting a war in a

So starting a war in a landlocked pre-modern country on the opposite side of the planet without knowledge of who or what the enemy is, nor of the political dynamics of the region and then after fruitless eight years we are supposed to determine what our national interests are? This is now apparently what passes for progress in the Pentagon, Congress and the White House?

 

HUNTER

8:26 AM ET

January 11, 2010

Your comment = definition of disingenuous

The national interests (right, wrong or indifferent) were defined in 2001 and 2003. Our Congress, Presidents and Pentagon all leave alot to be desired sometimes but the reasons and interests were defined.

I think there is a lot of lame defeatist commentary in here - similar to that experienced prior to the Iraq surge (and its associated more important change in operational perspective).

Afghanistan is becoming a boogeyman, graveyard of empires, impossible, too hard. In the endgame we are still whining about how hard this is....bull shit Pointe du Hoc was hard, Bataan was hard, Inchon was hard.

Time to stop whining, start working. BTW, the unit I previously commanded...yeah they got home in late 08...they got new marching orders for early 11. They were damn successful in Iraq, they'll be even better in Afghanistan. You keep whining, we'll keep working.

 

STEVE358

5:10 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Jalalabad

Nothing underscores the UN and Dr. Cordesman's points than news from Jalalabad.

Last week, 1,000 students protesting the killing of 10 students in the Northwest.

I heard from a friend about last week's 4 kids killed and loads of injured from an Afghan security vehicle driving over a mine.

Then 5,000 protesters in Jalalabad from that.

The Good News story today? The Taliban is working with the UN/Karzai to inoculate Afghan kids from polio.

Is somebody missing this stuff?

The problems and solutions in Afghanistan are not military, and cannot be won by doing the same old thing, the same old way.

If we can't adapt...

 

RUBBER DUCKY

5:38 PM ET

January 9, 2010

Why?

Why a nation is in war is a constant reassessment, or should be. How got there is history, but why stay is a current question. Always. "Vital national interest." That's the formula. A lot of mischief can hide in that term, but sooner or later in the particular instance the phrase either has to mean something or we are just screwing around.

War has momentum and inertia. Institutions (Congress, the military, the executive) find they have vested interest in persevering. But sooner or later it circles back to the ultimate question of national interest and if that can't be found, it's an immoral undertaking.

We`'re getting closer to that reckoning. The Army has about one more throw of the dice in Afghanistan. If successful (defined in current terms), great and start withdrawing. If not successful ... start withdrawing. I see that in the Commander in Chief's current plans: get it right and get it over with ... or get it over with.

And Iraq? Game over already. AMF.

 

JAFFIR

6:19 PM ET

January 9, 2010

jpwrel; i disagree

Actually, I think you might be able to get conscripts to engage in dangerous practices. The US military volunteers i've dealt with are pretty opinionated and quite thoughtful when it comes to the war.

 

SOLDIERSDIARY

1:19 AM ET

January 11, 2010

good luck

I love when people raise the argument on bringing back the draft and using conscripts to fight our wars. Perhaps after the draft is brought back, the Soldiers can fly over to Afghanistan on their magic unicorns.
Reality is that we have a volunteer army, barring a war for national survival, that is not changing in our lifetime.

 

JAFFIR

4:59 AM ET

January 11, 2010

I couldn't agree more

of course there is not going to be a draft. My only point Oblio, is that folks keep saying that if there was a draft, the US military would somehow be smarter due to the sudden influx of random Americans. I disagree. The US military folks I've met are pretty sharp. I am not sure that conscripts would be as clever. And certainly not as motivated.

 

RUBBER DUCKY

8:12 AM ET

January 11, 2010

Conscripts?

Between stop-lose orders, IRR, and Guard/Reserve repeat tours, we are essentially using conscripts now... but with no effect on the body politic and scant on the public at large. National will should be matched by national effort. Absent a draft, national effort can go on without national will and those fighting trend towards mercenaries..

Perhaps the rationale is too abstract for those who see the AFV as God's Will. Try this: the draft is clearly anticipated and authorized in the Constitution and has been found to be constitutional by the Supreme Court on three separate occasions in two different centuries. Think of it in different words: democracy; will of the people; the nation at war. And a highly effective brake on over-reaching but under-achieving leaders as we have just suffered through.

 

ELIOTG

12:10 AM ET

January 11, 2010

Knowledge Management

The Information Centers sound, to a large extent, like corporate knowledge centers--or libraries as they used to be called. So why aren't more intelligence offices going to library school for their graduate education? Maybe they are and I just haven't noticed them. Please set me straight on this--I'm just an outsider/civilian.

 

SOLDIERSDIARY

1:58 AM ET

January 11, 2010

schools

The military does send its officers to schools like these, NDIC, and other graduate institutions, however, the more you send to school, the less there are serving in operational units as well as in instructor roles at the MI schools.

 

JAFFIR

8:49 AM ET

January 11, 2010

scrubbed duck

You are kidding. Right? Agreed. Stop loss is a pain in the tail. However, its microscopic (unless it happens to you), and the US military is overwhelmingly voluntary. I just haven't seen soldiers who feel they have been tricked into a war. They actually seen pretty game.

 

STEVE358

9:48 AM ET

January 11, 2010

The Perennial Problem

Dr. Cordesman's response to MG Flynn's Report goes beyond just repeating that the military are clueless and left to fortune telling.

The significant piece he adds is the serious discussion about the civilian component (red, yellow, green, and lush with good news about "input metrics").

As this supposed new kind of war for which we have no definitions, one thing is certain---the military can not win this war. The answers lie elsewhere. Clear, Hold and Build is, by its nature, a path that ends with civilian resolutions, and not with military victories. (See: Cordesman's prior report on winning the battles but losing the war). We did this, we did that: OK, but what measurable purpose did it serve?

The circuitous logic is overwhelming, though. MG Flynn does not have sufficient information about local power brokers, the emerging shadow government and its patterns of rule-of-law and other "services" being increasingly provided, and on and on. If he doesn't know those basic drivers. If, overwhelmingly, the military information gap is inadequate to bridge the "clear" first step, how do we get to hold and build.

Joanne Nathan, an astute Afghan observers, said a few months ago: I don't understand; you clear, then clear, then clear. You never hold, and seem to have no administrative capabilities or purpose.

The gap between and civilian end game (hold/build), and the initial military realizations about deficiencies to get to clear is still very wide. How can it be bridged if even the military is just "making it up as they go?"

 

TYRTAIOS

11:19 AM ET

January 11, 2010

The Problem is Security

It would be helpful if Joanne would also point-out that one cannot hold, and expand-out, unless there is adequate armed footprint present to do that - which hasn't been the case.

Out sourcing to NATO, and under resourcing assets in Afghanistan, while we stumbled around in Iraq until having an epiphany in reinventing counter-insurgency has cost us valuable time that may never be made up.

You simply cannot gather information toward the pop-centric without security! I noted your time line in Iraq Steve, and it seems you weren't out and about until things calmed down there a bit?

Incidentally, I've looked at the tactical maps we're using in Afghanistan - is this the best we can do from our cartographers? A guy could get lost between contour intervals.

 

STEVE358

7:02 PM ET

January 11, 2010

Reconstruction/Security

No question that security is an issue for reconstruction.

Remember that in Iraq, Ambassador Crocker put out a call for civilian experts in May 2007 and it took that long for them to deploy us in December. The North was still hot, but not so much that you couldn't make headway if you could latch on to some secure movements. You had a lot of civilian experts there, unlike Afghanistan.

My understanding is that no such call has gone out from DoS for technical experts or senior civilian advisers in Afghanistan, just that governance thing (poli sci/foreign service). My argument (like Dr. Cordesman's) is that these PRTs need to be effectively targeted against planned problems and solutions, instead of fuzzy governance stuff.

The Iraq PRTs were pretty haphazardly organized that many of the senior technical advisers never really engaged. Some, like most of my senior adviser cohorts jumped out to work with the military or UN. As a practical matters, in many cases, the PRTs were an impediment to provincial self-government while each rotation "became effective," delayed the extension of national government, and inadvertently created a lot of problems. There is a net assessment which may be slightly positive, but there is no way that they could not, with professional advisers and experienced, effective management, have been substantially better.

Would have been easier and faster to have civilians advise and train the military better to do most of the Iraq PRT jobs. Too often, they were competing with each other anyway.

Today, I attended a PRT Presentation where the State rep explained that they are fully deployed, and can't find more people, but that the folks they send take about six months to become productive. Certainly a lot imbedded in that, but my version is that if you first deploy the professionals to frame the problems and solutions in a meaningful way, it will be easier to productively deploy people.

If the folks you hire take too long to become productive on the ground, better to give them a month or two of professional training in development than have them stumbling around on the ground, and to spend that extra month prepping resources for their effective deployment. If the civilians they are sending are either untrained or unsupported, it is better not to burden the battle space with them.

Let's keep the numbers in mind. The Afghan Census Bureau and UN put the population at 24 million, of which about 9 million are school age or younger, and 6.5 of which are in school. That leaves 15 million grownups of which half are women (seldom engaged as combatants). Of the 7.5 million non-school age men, 40% are Pashtun (about 3 million), of which maybe 10% are deeply opposed to us and focused in particular areas. Now, for those folks in those places, what are the specific problems driving opposition, and how do you create a substantial and rapid net positive change? This is not rocket science.

The chicken and egg is that the sooner we can help them extend the writ of government and rule of law, the sooner a more stable environment can be gained---regardless of security. So, do you wait for six months while the new DoS folks become effective for the remaining 6 months of their one year tour, or find some serious commitment to get focused on the civilian side.

No doubt, if somebody put out an emergency call again for experienced civilian professionals, and provided an effective deployment/support system, the numbers, quality and results would be substantially different than if we just keep pushing this fuzzy "whole of government" concept. When was the last time you called the federal government because of a local or state service problem?

If the US was serious about civilian stabilization & reconstruction, it could be done a whole lot more effectively.

PS. A map with too many lines on it to see the things you need to gain from it is a bad map. In today's digital mapping world, a map can be printed with any details in any format. Ther is an art too it.

 

STEVE358

7:17 PM ET

January 11, 2010

PS

When I said "it's not rocket science," I meant the post-war reconstruction stabilization piece, not the military piece.

Study it, plan it, deliver it where/when you can.

 

TYRTAIOS

11:45 PM ET

January 11, 2010

Occam's Razor

Good reply Steve, thanks - I hope to read more from you in the future.

Additionally, being the bright individual you appear to be - just a reminder: entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem! : )

 

RUBBER DUCKY

10:00 AM ET

January 11, 2010

So?

Being 'voluntary' is profoundly different from being the will of the people. The AVF continues to trend away from the society it protects, with its own separate welfare state, culture, and values. That worries me. I don't expect it to worry those inside, but those outside - we the people - should be worried.

And the AVF has reached the inelastic limits of its ability to do its job on a global basis ... or to even move 30,000 soldiers to one of its wars in the time needed. Works in peacetime - sucks in war.

 

JPWREL

11:51 AM ET

January 11, 2010

RD is absolutely correct

RD, of course you are correct but many fear national service for the very reason that it might hinder the ‘over-reaching and under-performing’ leaders amusing themselves by pursuing military adventures. The idea that a few in this forum are promoting that war is just fine if the troops don’t mind it is simply absurd. We don’t poll troops to decide national policy. War by its very definition in a democratic society is a national effort regardless of scale. In this country war is waged in the name of the ‘people’ not Bush or Obama, hence, it is the people who should provide the manpower and financing and Congress should be forced to put itself within a time frame clearly and unambiguously on record by a resolution of a ‘state of war’ if we invade one country or another.

 

JSINAIKO

12:53 PM ET

January 11, 2010

With all the complaining in

With all the complaining in other threads (amd out there in the real world) about lack of specific knowledge sets it's a mystery to me why some sort of national service can't be the answer.

RD's point about the growing distance between the military sphere and everyone else is worrisome to me too. Eventually it could end up being dangerous - not for the foreseeable future, but someday.

The extremely broad range of skills and experience national service could bring would go a long way to solving some of these gaps. I was watching an old documentary from the 90s the other day about the squads of art historians and curators attached to each US army in late 1945 and into 46 and 47 that were tasked with recovering, restoring, and returning to their rightful owners the art treasures looted by the Nazis during the war. Might that have been a good thing in 2003 when the Iraqi museums were looted? Culture and the robbing of it by occupying forces (or just looters as was the case in Iraq) is no small thing.

 

JAFFIR

2:09 PM ET

January 11, 2010

your kidding?

RD. Will of the people? What? Are you kidding. The fact is, the will of the people continues to support both the wars. Tepidly, yes, but yes. And RPW, the troops don"t mind the war? I haven't met a troop yet that that thought a day under fire was, unmindful.

 

RUBBER DUCKY

2:29 PM ET

January 11, 2010

Well sure they do...

Meaningless that the people support the wars. It's not their kids getting killed.

The elites are OK with it too. Their kids never join.

War on the cheap. What a great (imperial) idea! What did the Founding Fathers know with their abhorrence of standing armies and their frumpy old Constitution with that part about 'raising an army?'

 

JAFFIR

3:22 PM ET

January 11, 2010

sure they don't

The people are the constitution. We can consult the body politic anytime we choose to. And actually, a lot of the elite actually join.

 

RUBBER DUCKY

3:25 PM ET

January 11, 2010

"The people are the constitution."

And the sun is the moon.

 

Thomas E. Ricks covered the U.S. military for the Washington Post from 2000 through 2008.

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