A Marine's Afghan AAR (VII): How and when to shoot

Posted By Thomas E. Ricks Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 4:11 PM Share

Here CWO2/Gunner Keith Marine recommends less shooting, more assaulting:

Fire Discipline and marksmanship fundamentals. Got to get your guys to buy in to only shooting at targets. I think we did a good job of this but there were some units who got engaged by an estimated enemy force of fire team size and managed to shoot 4 magazines per man for a platoon -- complete horseshit. I think everyone realizes that the enemy generally does a good job of selecting firing positions with a decent amount of cover and concealment. If 4 guys are shooting at you, probably not 4 or 5 guys from your side can identify the positions. In addition, the guy who is waiting for a target will see a Marine shooting at a random bush or window and believe that's where the bad guys are and add his fires to the mix, next thing you know you have an entire squad/platoon dumping rounds into an empty bush or window and there is so much fire from your side of the canal, you don't know if or where fire from the other side is coming.

This boils down to training, unit discipline, and whether or not the individual Marines have combat action ribbons. Suggest you speak with the officers and convince your commander that if an incident appears where a platoon shoots a few thousand 5.56 and some rockets at an estimated 3-4 enemy, while rapidly turning in CAR requests a preliminary inquiry should soon follow with some punitive action. The guys who only shoot at targets and employs his weapon systems to his advantage will overwhelm and defeat these clowns over here every time. The guys who sit back and shoot a lot, while awaiting fire support, just make noise and waste money and convince the Taliban to continue attacking.

DAVID FURST/AFP/Getty Images

EXPLORE:AFGHANISTAN, MILITARY

(7)

HIDE COMMENTS LOGIN OR REGISTER REPORT ABUSE

ERIC_STRATTONIII

5:08 PM ET

December 29, 2009

Sweet!!!

They get it. :)

TYRTAIOS

6:02 PM ET

December 29, 2009

Maybe more tart than sweet

They very well may "get it" ERIC, however, the Gunner is noticing inconsistency with distributed fire and discipline 'within his battalion's letter companies.

Does anyone encourage small unit leaders to move in tactically after the firefight and look for blood trails, evidence of an occupied position, drag-off trails, etc., to assess the results for intel, as well as creating a learning example?

Eyes-up for the New Year. : )

JPWREL

6:13 PM ET

December 29, 2009

Eric

Gunner Keith writes: “The guys who only shoot at targets and employs his weapon systems to his advantage will overwhelm and defeat these clowns over here every time. “

Clowns? Do clowns armed merely with light weapons and limited ammunition take on the U. S. Marine Corps with a vast amount of firepower, heavy ordnance, air support, loads of ammunition, etc., deserve that type of sophomoric contempt? These so-called ‘clowns’ seem to me gutsy, determined and possess a robust indifference to lethal danger in this mismatch of resources.

I am old enough to remember when Viet Cong and NVA troops were considered ‘clowns’ when they gave us the bums rush out of Southeast Asia. Holding our enemy (in this case a vile and ruthless enemy) in contempt is perilous for every coalition soldier.

TYRTAIOS

6:43 PM ET

December 29, 2009

JPWREL

Temperance JPWREL. Mister Keith Marine knows the difference. I would consider his use of the word a euphuism, and carry-over from his enlisted days, and is what I would expect from my infantry organic weapons expert, were I his CO.

The Taliban aren’t that better than we are, they’ve just been at it longer, and came to realize, fighting like the block heads they used to be, wouldn’t off-set American firepower. When the Corps first went into Afghanistan, awhile back, the Taliban were surprised at how the Marines would assault through their ambushes.

I think some aspects of the Iraq experience need to be washed out of our Marines' minds. It is kind of like going from Con Thien on the DMZ and fighting into and through Hue City in Vietnam - apples and oranges.

Prosperity and health for the comming New Year "old man." : )

JPWREL

11:51 PM ET

December 29, 2009

Why I thank you and ditto's

Why I thank you and ditto's for the New Year!

TSPECOPS

10:37 AM ET

December 30, 2009

Calling the enemy by other

Calling the enemy by other names, usually a lot more derogatory than "clowns", has been around for a while. Think back to everything that the enemy has been called. Japs, slant eyes, gooks, they all serve the purpose of dehuminizing the enemy and making the job of the troops easier to undertake: killing the enemy. When you hear the gunner describe the enemy, you can tell that there is a certain amount of respect in their tactics. Calling them "clowns" in no way belittles the respect that our troops have for the courage of the enemy.

RAS

11:25 PM ET

December 30, 2009

As do so many things, this

As do so many things, this boils down to training and leadership. As a lieutenant in 1st Ranger Battalion many years ago, I remember seeing my NCO explode when one of our Rangers emptied a magazine at a target rather than aiming and firing. Fire discipline is a priceless tactical virtue, particularly when a 5.56 round can go the length of a village through several mud walls and leave behind people who don't like us much. I'm also glad to see someone above touch on respect for one's enemies. The secret to being better than the other guy is understanding just how good he is while realizing that he's not 11 feet tall.