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What happened in Wanat? (X)

Wed, 09/30/2009 - 5:28pm

Just what did happen in Wanat, the firefight in Afghanistan in the summer of 2008 that left nine American soldiers dead? That is just what Centcom appears to be asking, according to this press release that just came in:

HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND

USCENTCOM appoints investigating officer to review 2008 Afghanistan combat action

U.S. Central Command

MACDILL AFB, Fla. (Sept. 30, 2009) - Gen. David H. Petraeus, Commander, U.S. Central Command, has appointed Lt. Gen Richard F. Natonski, Commander, U.S. Marine Corps Forces Command, to investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the combat action that occurred on July 13, 2008, at Wanat Village, Wygal District, Nuristan Province, Afghanistan.

The new investigation will address issues that have arisen since the completion of the AR 15-6 investigation, and will also address circumstances beyond the tactical level.

I find it especially interesting that Centcom is taking this out of the hands of the Army, which has handled all the investigations and reports so far, described in previous posts.

Thomas E. Ricks | Permalink |

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Never was Army

by Rubber Ducky on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 6:24pm

Never should have been with Army. Not an operational commander. Why CentCom has ignored it this long?

Chain of command integrity....

by Bill Keller on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 7:34pm

do we hold this old principle anymore? Is it only top down?

General Natonski, victorious at Fallujah

by Don Bacon on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:03pm

MACDILL AFB, Fla. (Sept. 30, 2009) - Gen. David H. Petraeus, Commander, U.S. Central Command, has appointed Lt. Gen Richard F. Natonski, Commander, U.S. Marine Corps Forces Command, to investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the combat action that occurred on July 13, 2008, at Wanat Village, Wygal District, Nuristan Province, Afghanistan.

What the heck is USMC Forces Command?

U.S. Marine Corps Forces Command (MARFORCOM) headquarters is at Naval Base Norfolk, Va. and serves as the U.S. Marine Corps component of U.S. Joint Forces Command.

Okay, what the devil is U.S. Joint Forces Command?

U.S. Joint Forces Command (USJFCOM) is one of DoD’s ten combatant commands and has several key roles in transforming the U.S. military’s capabilities.

four major mission areas:

• Joint Concept Development and Experimentation
To accomplish this mission, the command develops new concepts and tests them through experimentation and, in collaboration with other combatant commands, services and agencies, recommends solutions to better integrate their warfighting capabilities.
• Joint Training
As DoD’s joint force trainer, USJFCOM prepares joint task force commanders and staffs to execute their missions in a joint environment.
• Joint Capabilities Development
The command works closely with combatant commanders, the services and other government agencies to identify and resolve joint warfighting deficiencies.
• Joint Force Provider
the command helps national decision makers make informed choices on supporting operations, assists military commanders to identify potential readiness problems and develop appropriate strategies and maintain the nation's forces at the highest possible level of readiness.

http://www.jfcom.mil/about/about1.htm

Oh, I get it. A scheme to provide more useless headquarters complete with general officer billets, one of which -- surprise! -- can be spared for this important whitewash, er, investigation.

Meanwhile, a couple towns up from me, the kids go to "school" in portable classrooms --- the townsfolk can't afford better. Go figure how this enhances "national security."

Stop and think about the mission statements you posted

by James S. on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:48pm

The third mission statement:

• Joint Capabilities Development
The command works closely with combatant commanders, the services and other government agencies to identify and resolve joint warfighting deficiencies.

This investigation is to see what went wrong to try to ensure it does not happen again. While I am sure a few people will catch blame grenades during this investigation, that is not its focus. Nor is it whitewash. This investigation is to make recommendations to ensure there are no more Wanats.

I am sorry to hear about the school up the road from you. It sounds like they need to talk to their city council and ask where their tax money is going if not to their schools. I doubt the school system's money comes from the Pentagon's budget. Nor would cutting the Pentagon’s budget necessarily mean better schools as any money pulled from the military is just as, if not more, likely to go to the NEA, State Department, or any of a hundreds of pet projects the Federal Government has as to your local school system.

Okay, I've thought about it

by Don Bacon on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 11:00pm

and come to the conclusion that a combatant command, headed by a Lieutenant General and god knows how many MG's and BG coffee-getters, and even more 06 phone-answerers and gossipers, is not required "to identify and resolve joint warfighting deficiencies." Duh.

I smell rotten Bacon

by soldiersdiary on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 9:29am

Don,
You demonstrate to everyone you lack of understanding of the U.S. military and how it works. Combatant Commands are headed by 4 star Generals/Admirals. Other flag officers on those staffs do not just get coffee; I have yet to meet a general with that job description. Nor have I met any Colonels whose job description is simply to answer phones. Generals on Combatant Command Staffs head up different elements (operations, intel, etc...). Perhaps you could have found a web-page to cut and paste that from.
JFCOM is responsible for providing the troops to the Combatant Commands. The Regional Combatant Commands are responsible for actually fighting and conducting other operations. Do some research, read some manuals that are available by a simple Google search, read the Goldwater-Nichols Act, anything to do with the National Security Act (1947), and let us know when you understand service responsibilities and Combatant Command responsibilities. Then you can post something with not just you opinion, but an informed opinion.

You're right,I mis-spoke --

by Don Bacon on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 10:16am

the situation is even worse because "combatant commands" are in fact headed by four-stars, which makes the situation even worse. "Combatant command" sure sounds better than "paper-shuffling command", though.

As for the name-slam you can go f yourself. Twice. We try to run a decent place here.

Bacon's Still Frying

by Tyrtaios on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 10:27am

Don knows very well soldiersdiary, he's being sarcastic.

Were you entering Wash, D.C., having been awarded a triumph, Don would be the slave alongside you holding a golden wreath above your head who whispers the words Respica te, hominem te mementods.

You must remember what Don knows: Abyssus abyssum invocat - Hell calls hell; one mistep leads to another!

I don't think I would have said that.

by Don Bacon on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 11:04am

I would never characterize a returning soldier as "only a man" -- I think they deserve the greatest respect, more than they get, as I sort of indicated with my blog post here regarding some soldiers that are returning the wrong way.

It's the generals I often have a problem with, for various reasons.

problems with generals

by soldiersdiary on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 11:32am

Have you read the bios of these generals. Do you assume they never did time on the line as LTs, CPTs, and in many cases as former enlisted Soldiers? Read the bio of Gen. Mattis; he command JFCOM for a reason, not for being a paper pusher. We have been in the GWOT for 8 years now, many flag officers who spent time in BN, BDE command in combat are now generals. Many of our young Soldiers, enlisted and Officers are the future generals/admirals. I think they all deserve the greatest respect. Many of them have spent numerous tours (see Dave Petraus) over there.

one sick puppy

by Don Bacon on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 2:27pm

Read the bio of Gen. Mattis

I did, and a Shoup or a Butler he ain't. They apparently don't make them like that anymore.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Mattis

by admiral on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 4:54pm

Mr. Bacon,

I remember an article where a spokesperson later came back and said that Mattis had never personally killed anyone. I will not put down an enlisted man ever. The perfumed prince's are fair game. As a former USMC officer myself, I can only say that Mattis is complete punk and a disgrace to the Corps.

On another aside, I saw on your site a link for the book about the coup that Butler spoiled. A good friend of mine bought that book for around $300 4-5 years ago, and typed it out on his web site. He was later contacted and told the rights to the book were sold, and he was instructed to take the book down from his site. Does the person you link to have the rights? I'm not trying to pry, just confused. The book should be read all over the world. Also, I did not realize you were the author of the SDB site. I would have never wasted your time on the go around about Ricks if I knew what I know now. I have great respect for the work you are doing. Thank you.

admiral,

by Don Bacon on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 7:26pm

I assume you're talking about "The Plot to Seize the White House" by Jules Archer which was posted by Chris Floyd. I don't know the answer to your question.

And thanks for the thanks on the SBS. I don't publicize the fact ordinarily, but I did mention it in connection with the old Rummywatch feature. I just researched it for you, and in September Smedley's site (typically) had over 3,000 visits from friends of his in 63 countries. Not a lot for most sites, but pretty good for a dead guy. (Not that I really think of him as dead.) Top ten non-US-commercial visits were: Russian Federation, Canada, Germany, US Military, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Brazil, Italy, India and Japan. So Smed's got friends all over the world.

"War is a racket . . .the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."--MajGen Smedley D. Butler, USMC

SDB

by admiral on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 9:00pm

Thank you for the reply. I'm glad to hear that your site is spreading far and wide.

Indeed Don, Generals

by Tyrtaios on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 11:57am

Indeed Don, Generals (and all commanders) should embody critical characteristics in balanced combinations to qualify them for leadership and be free of traits that might either lead to judgmental errors or be exploitable and thereby doom their command - which is why the USMC screens those eligable for command - though not all will command, having been found qualified.

However, once the general is carefully selected, and has assumed command, the ruler cannot interfere with the general's action or decisions, primarily because valuable opportunities might be lost or action that endanger the army. Sun Tzu? Nope, the T'ai Kung with embellishments from Tyrtaios, damn fine former Private of Marines.

Harry Truman had a view on that.

by Don Bacon on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 2:36pm

It's the fellows who go to West Point and are trained to think they're gods in uniform that I plan to take apart."

And he did.

The Generals

by Tyrtaios on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 3:02pm

Harry thought quite highly of Gen. George Marshall, a West Pointer, who concurred with his president on relieving Dugout Doug. Harry said lot's of things.

A bonus story for Don Bacon: during the early days of JFK's administration, he was getting briefed by the JCS on invading Cuba.

When it came time for the Commandant of the Marine Corps, Lieutenant General Shoup, who was sitting in as a courtesy in those days, the General put a map of Cuba up, imposed the state of Rhode Island inside, and further put a red dot inside that.

When asked what the red dot was, the General stated, this was Tarawa,( he was awarded the Medal of Honor there), and made the case against it. The president could see it was folly, for a time anyway.

General Shoup became John F.Kennedy's favorite that day.

Although severely shocked by an exploding enemy shell soon after landing at the pier and suffering from a serious, painful leg wound which had become infected, Col. Shoup fearlessly exposed himself to the terrific and relentless artillery, machinegun, and rifle fire from hostile shore emplacements. Rallying his hesitant troops by his own inspiring heroism, he gallantly led them across the fringing reefs to charge the heavily fortified island and reinforce our hard-pressed, thinly held lines. Upon arrival on shore, he assumed command of all landed troops and, working without rest under constant, withering enemy fire during the next 2 days, conducted smashing attacks against unbelievably strong and fanatically defended Japanese positions . . .Shoup radioed: "Casualties many. Percentage dead not known. Combat efficiency — we are winning."

For that he was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. He died on 13 January 1983 at age 78 and is buried in Arlington National Cemetery (photo).

Here's David Hackworth on General Shoup:

Back during the horror of the Vietnam War, only retired Marine Gen. David Shoup had the guts to tell Congress that Vietnam was a bad war and we shouldn't be there."