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Keane: War is over

Keane, a straight shooter, also said that Saudi Arabia has been "absolutely outrageous" in undercutting Iraqi economic development. He didn't offer details.
Other panel members basically agreed. "I believe that the cycle of sectarian violence has been broken," said John Nagl of CNAS and Eating Soup with a Knife. And Nazar Janabi, a former Iraqi military officer and civilian defense official, said that, "Some level of optimism is totally called for."
Samir Sumaida'ie, the Iraqi ambassador to the United States, gave an eloquent talk in which he took hope from his view that the Americans of 2009 are not the same as the clumsy Americans who invaded his country in 2003. "America has changed ... through experience," he said. "They made some very expensive mistakes, some horrible mistakes." But since those bad old days, he added, "They have learned a lot."
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That's great-why can't we go home then?
Seems to me there is a mixed message here. If the cycle of violence has been broken then we should be able to pull out US troops tomorrow and just let the Iraqis have it and rise or fall on their own.
Why then do policy makers and military leaders keep scheming to find ways to avoid the SOFA required pullout?
What is the justification for continuing?
In the preceding session, Dr. Andrew J. Bacevich asked for justification before continuing current and future activities at war in central Asia. He is asking for the integrity of the action's justification. He finds none - a very courageous conclusion from a man who has given his posterity to maintain the ongoing war. I find myself in agreement with Dr. Bacevich. We need to reopen the justification.
Color me skeptical
Keane, Nagl and an Iraqi official... Pardon me if I'm a little less than convinced to hear this coming from them. But then we've been hearing predictions that it was just about over for so long, I won't really believe it until we see it happen.
We've heard this song before.
In a rare appearance in Washington, General [George] Casey offered an optimistic but cautious assessment of the situation in Iraq, where he commands more than 140 thousand U.S. and coalition troops.
"We're actually a little further along than I thought we would be at this point."
The general said the Iraqi insurgency is still capable of launching devastating attacks, but he says it is weaker than it was a few months ago thanks to continuing offensive operations by his troops and the new Iraqi army and police.
"In general terms, they are falling off and not effective. We took a look at the election attacks, because we said, 'the elections ought to tell us something about the strength of the enemy.' Well, we saw about 300 attacks (and) maybe 70-percent of those were ineffective."
General Casey says the insurgents launch between 50 and 60 attacks every day, but try to carry out three or four times as many. He says the insurgents are more often resorting to relatively ineffective methods, such as drive-by shootings and by firing weapons from far away. The general says the coalition has reduced the insurgency's effectiveness by capturing or killing a large number of what he described as "second tier" leaders. --March 8, 2005
Iraq is grey
Iraq is very grey. There are still about 400 people killed a month there. That is a fraction of what it use to be. Attacks are down as well. Both dropped as the provincial elections neared in Jan. 09, but have started to creep back up.
The sectarian war is over. The Sunnis have accepted defeat, the Mahdi Army has largely been demobilized. When Shiite pilgrims get attacked, and it happens every single time they have a pilgrimage, there is no response from the Shiites.
A lot of groups are now trying politics instead of violence.
That being said, Odierno said he believes there will be violence in Iraq for the next 5-15 years. The Kurdistan-Baghdad dispute could bring down the government or worse, lead to fighting and the break-up of the country.
Iraq is evolving, but you can never tell which way it's going to turn. I haven't even mentioned the fact that the government hardly works, that there is high unemployment for the young, that only about 5% of Iraq's displaced have returned, etc.
I'd say the cycle of
I'd say the cycle of Sunni-Shia violence has been (largely) broken, but the Arab-Kurd relationship might still be a ticking time bomb in my opinion.
I concur with the poster above--with high unemployment and oil prices at an all time low, this may have a drastic effect on Iraq's ability to employ police and military personnel (some predictions are that over 100,000 will be laid off) and hamper the ability to employ the SOI as part of the security plan.
I won't say all is doom and gloom, and the situation is admittedly far better than it was four years ago, but I would be guarded about claiming that the war is over.
Too late
They're just copying Stephen Colbert's victory declaration - too late to be original. On a serious note, I agree with the comments here - if the circumstances have changed, it would be nice to see a rationalization for a new strategy that keeps US troops in theater (if one can be developed). I think the reason why you haven't seen more bold statements by current/former administration officials (to include Casey) is only because they don't want to put the administration in a position. Of course, if the current administration would take any position on Iraq and Afghanistan other than the status quo, that would be an improvement.
Well, I did argue this point
Well, I did argue this point here a few months back. You tend to argue from anecdote to back up your political bias, which anyone who's taken a basic logic class knows is logically invalid. I simply quoted the figures to you and pointed out you were wrong. No need for a mea culpa.
With oil prices skyrocketing and Obama's lack of a realistic energy plan guaranteed to spike the price of oil to an all-time high in the near future, I'd say the economic situation will sort itself out.
I'd worry more about Detroit or Chicago than Baghdad.
Someone forgot to
tell whomever just assassinated the head of the Sunni's largest political bloc in Parliament while he was visiting his local mosque. I suppose this is just the work of 'dead-enders' as the dearly departed Rummy would put it. This thing will not be over just because we say so. It will be over when the opposition runs out of kindling, i.e. young men intent on killing themselves.
This thing will not be over
This thing will not be over just because we say so. It will be over when the opposition runs out of kindling, i.e. young men intent on killing themselves.
And the "opposition" will be whichever side runs out of kindling first after we're gone.
In yugoslavia they were able to stop it for 40+ years and it bubbled over as soon as the lid was lifted. Maybe because they'd had time to grow up a new generation since the one that got killed back.
Anyway, the losers will be the sides that run out of men first, and they might easily include sides that we once supported.