Monday, April 27, 2009 - 2:15 PM

Here, entirely unedited by me, is a note that Bruce Fleming, a longtime professor of English at the Naval Academy, sent out to his Annapolis colleagues last week.
I don't agree with all of it -- but let him speak:
Subject: USMA response via LT Schatz/Ricks article
Ls and Gs,
A number of you have sent me the USMA PAO's (Director of Communication's) response to the Ricks op-ed, via an LT in our Poly Sci Dept, and have asked what I thought. My intention in responding is not to give definitive answers; for me the discussion is what counts. But I do want to add my two cents of response, partly in order to be able to move on in class-for plebes, back to the stories; for CW, more Bills and Billettes (actually all Bills from here on out).
First, cost of academies. Ricks is right; the USMA PAO is not. It's true that nobody seems to actually know how much the academies cost, as the quoted figures vary. When I wrote the USNA PAO last year to ask what figure we were quoting, he said he'd have to get back to me as "the Supe hadn't decided on the figure" yet. So it's clear that these figures are rather liquid: what do they include? Letherneck/Quantico? YPs? Still, generally accepted figures exist, and they're far closer to Ricks than the USMA guy-in fact Ricks goes with more conservative numbers than those generally shown. The US COmptroller gives about $352,000 per USNA officer, and a bit more than $448,000 per USMA officer (!!!!). (Go to USNA Intranet and type in "cost of service academies.") So it's disingenuous of the USMA guy to pick a much lower figure out of the hat to make a debater's point that we don't cost much more than, say, ROTC at MIT. In fact, the case is even stronger than Ricks makes it that the academies are money pits. To quote from an article I'm working on: "The study of "Comparative Analysis of ROTC, OCS and Service Academies as Commissioning Sources" put out by the Advanced Management Program of the Navy Supply Corps School's Advanced Management Program (Tench Francis School of Business) notes that "DoD invests approximately four times as much to produce a single academy graduate as it invests to produce a single ROTC graduate. Academy graduates cost approximately eight times as much as Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates."" FOUR TIMES AS MUCH AS ROTC ON AVERAGE. (Ricks's 130K for ROTC is the SINGLE MOST EXPENSIVE ROTC OPTION at an expensive school like Vanderbilt, NOT the average.)
(Read on)
Second, "community-college education." The context for this is Ricks' noting that most USMA faculty members lack PhDs. The person writing the USMA memo does too, as does the USNA LT who disseminated it: that people like this teach seniors is our soft underbelly, and Ricks is right to take a jab at it. The USMA PAO tries a "tu quoque" argument by saying that at many major institutions undergraduates are taught by TAs or people without advanced degrees. True, unfortunately. But that's comparing us to research universities. If you compare us to the undergraduate institutions which are our ranking class on the US News polls (more on those below) you'll find that's not true. At Haverford, where I went, there are no graduate students, and hence no TAs. All students are taught by professors with PhDs and usually many years and publications in their fields. You can argue that seniority and publications do not make effective teachers-that's one of my repeated points, and it's true. But that's not what at issue here. There are certainly lesser liberal arts colleges that hire MAs for "freshman comp" and the like, but we don't like to compare ourselves to them, and it's not much of a point to say that we're only as bad as they are on that score. At issue here is the undeniable fact that at the academies, we tend to hold the position that being an 0-3 makes up for lack of professional qualifications in the classroom-or perhaps, that this IS the professional qualification. If you compare us to civilian schools, as we're doing here, only academics are on the table for comparison. The fact of an LT's having been in flight school doesn't add anything to their ability to teach, for example, Shakespeare. It has some sense in the Leadership, Ethics, and Law dept (for the first of the three, anyway)-where most LTs are lodged at USNA. Even here it's unclear how being a JO translates to the ability to educate undergraduates about leadership, except through sea stories (perhaps they're the point). Outside of "Leadership" the relevance of being a Navy 0-3 seems slight. Bottom line: here again Ricks is right. It's community colleges whose faculty members are largely MAs. Ricks's primary target is USMA, of course, and USMA has exponentially more MAs than we do, because they only recently got any civilians, and these aren't tenured: USNA has always had civilian PhDs. Still, this is a sensitive point, and it's understandable why the people who are screaming are doing so. The USNA LT who forwarded this has an MA from Georgetown and is here on a 3-year tour; he's just the kind of instructor that Ricks is dinging-and the USMA PAO's job is to make his boss and his institution look good to the outside world, not provide an objective assessment (that's what his fitrep is based on). So the source of the argument needs to be considered too.
Third, the rankings. Here the USMA guy is on what seems to be thicker ice. It is perfectly true that our rankings are out of sight. But that's a bit like saying that because everybody thought the economy was good last August, that it was: both were beauty contests (no, I'm not saying we're a bubble: my point is that we have a great PR apparatus, including the PAO at USMA who wrote this "rebuttal."). Let me explain: let's go to the click on US News that explains the methodology. 25% is "peer assessment"-i.e. a beauty contest of sorts. It seems true that USNA and USMA have hugely high approval ratings in the world outside. If you further go to the click that ranks undergrad education based on what the guidance counselors at the most highly rated high schools think the best undergraduate education is, you find at the top of the list-yes, drum roll, USNA! USMA is not far beyond. Now those of us who live here may have a different or at least more nuanced view: my point is that if enough people sing our praises, these are actually incorporated into the numbers as the appearance of objective fact. Further, 15% of the rankings are based on "student selectivity." USNA and USMA have always claimed a 10/1 application ratio, i.e. 10 apply for one seat. This year we're claiming 15 to l for USNA. When I was on the Admissions Board, we saw perhaps 2x the number of applicants per seat. I asked, where are the other 8? An unusually frank LCDR told me that this l0 was not COMPLETED APPLICATIONS OF VIABLE CANDIDATES, but initiated applications/queries for information-by anyone, including, say, 7th graders who of course cannot enter. This was informally corroborated by a highly placed official at USNA. These two things together are 40% of the rankings-this is of course just the USNews rankings (though these are the most consistently cited), but the others are similar.
In other words, if we tell the world we're super, this hype comes back at us in the form of the world saying we ARE super. There's no objectivity in this argument either. So the rankings are basically PR fluff, lying with numbers. Bottom line: the question here is not what the world thinks of us, but what we really are, which may be a different story.
Let me take the opposite side just for the record: we also get points in the rankings for small classes, the largest % of 1/5 of the ranking. It's quite true that we have small classes: it's one of our strengths. Another is that full professors DO teach plebes (conversely, MAs teach seniors, which in my view is a travesty). Another is that we give unlimited EI (which doesn't show up in rankings). So some of our reputation is justified.
Fourth, Ricks doesn't have to prove that ROTC officers are better, though that's one way to understand his anecdote. He'd be better understood as saying that the PRESUPPOSITION OF ACADEMY SUPERIORITY THAT IS SUCH AN ARTICLE OF FAITH HEREABOUTS IS NOT SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE IN THE FLEET. NOT that ROTC officers are better, only that there's no evidence they're worse. (He should have pointed out that we'd better darn sight hope this is true, as Academy graduates are less than 20% of the officer numbers in every service, Navy 19.5%, Army 16.5%.) The point is, we have to justify our expense and our odd "intrusive leadership" methodology as being better than doing less, such as at ROTC, and there's no evidence currently that does that. Ricks is right that the academies are exponentially more expensive, exponentially more intrusive, exponentially more loaded with stuff that impacts academics negatively, exponentially more homogeneous than any civilian campus-and without any provable benefits. (The PAO says the academies have these benefits, but doesn't say what they are.) To go back to quoting my article, which itself is based on this Navy Supply Corps study:
The Tench Francis study notes that "no significant difference in officers' progression through the lower ranks, based on commissioning sources, has been observed. We can't say that it's the academies that cause people to stay in longer; perhaps it's merely a correlated quality, not an effect." The fact that academy graduates tend to stay in the military somewhat longer than NROTC officers could be due to the fact that many of our students come from Navy families, or have the mind-set of career people to begin with: if they went elsewhere, they'd presumably still have this mind-set.
The justification for the academies, we sometimes hear, is found in the fact that, as this study puts it, "service academy graduates have historically experienced the greatest success in attaining senior officer ranks." Yet "the advantage in achieving the general/flag officer ranks has diminished over the last two decades" across all services: in 1972, the percentage of service academy-trained general/flag rank officers was forty-two percent, against only five percent for ROTC and OCS. By 1990 these proportions were thirty-three percent academy, forty-one percent ROTC, and fifteen percent OCS.
Thus it's not necessarily true that if you go to the Naval Academy, you'll have a better chance of making flag officer, though this is how the fact is spun to midshipmen. NROTC now provides a much higher proportion of officers than it did in the late 1960s and 1970s, and USNA a much smaller one. This will of necessity change the pool of flag-officer-wannabes, and weaken the "old-boy network." Furthermore, we promote the people we promote. Saying that flag officers have been largely Academy graduates is like saying they've been overwhelmingly white men: we needn't assume this pattern will continue.
Again: nobody should be trying to prove we produce WORSE officers. Only that given our vastly more pro-active and expensive means of making officers, they should by rights be head and shoulders better than the competition-or at least somewhat better-and THERE"S NO EVIDENCE THEY ARE. We fail if we're not 4x better, or even 20%. No evidence of either.
Fifth, Ricks is far more correct than he even knows that our students are horribly disillusioned and cynical. The USMA PAO wisely doesn't take this on.
Me, I don't want to get rid of USNA. I want to rationalize us to eliminate the biggest sin of all, which is taking patriotic idealistic plebes and, after a few months, turning them into the passive-aggressive disillusioned corner-cutters who largely stalk our halls and sit in our classrooms grousing about some chickenshit thing that's got on their nerves in the Hall. But Ricks doesn't know enough about that to talk about it; and the USMA PAO went to the University of Massachusetts. If he were a whoop, of course "loyalty" (plus his fitrep) would seal his lips.
Of course, this is not l00% of students here. But remember, I've taught close to 3,000 students over 22 years: I have no dog in this fight, all I'm doing is summarizing large masses of numbers. Too many of the handful of mids who do triumph over the adversity of the system think that everyone has managed to. This isn't so. Besides, can't we imagine a system people didn't have to triumph over, but instead one that could help you rather than weigh you down? I think it's rather ironic that the most consistent justification (or "justification") offered for USNA by mids is precisely that: that "if you can put up with the s... here you can put up with it anywhere." Silly me: I thought we were more than a 343K sewer ride.
Sixth, it's not true that all mids or whoops are "crackerjack smart," which is Ricks's contention. This is one round for us and the USMA guy wisely leaves it alone. You and I know that Ricks is being far too nice to us. 30% of our students have Verbal SAT scores below 600, our floor for competitive students, and 18% are below this floor in math. (These are on the stats sheets USNA distributes to reporters, i.e. publically available.) We run a one-year taxpayer-supported remedial school and extensive remedial courses here at USNA-and so on. We let students in for many reasons other than smarts: you can agree or disagree with this way of proceeding, but assertions like Ricks's (who's trying to close us down!) that buy into the hype that everybody here is a jacked genius (hey, I am, and YOU are, but lots of others here aren't) show just how much the world thinks it has to kiss our ass, even when it's trying to kill us.
Ricks's worst misstep, which the USMA guy rightly pounces on: Using Petraeus's Ph.D from Princeton's Woody Woo School to argue for killing USMA. Ricks idolizes Petraeus, and yes, Petraeus was a whoop!. Very bad example for Ricks's point. Petraeus's PhD from Princeton's Woody Woo school probably didn't make him the man he is. But did USMA? The fact is that if the academies hadn't existed, Petraeus might have gone to Princeton undergrad too: the fact that he's good is not necessarily the result of his USMA education (or is it "education"?), but most probably of him. That's my point, certainly: so many of you are so lovable because of the fact that your driven alpha people, i.e. my kind of guy or gal. I think you'd be just the same at Vanderbilt, where you'd cost the taxpayers 130K rather than 343K (AND get to wear non-synthetic clothes!!!).
Bottom line: according to Fleming, Ricks is still standing, USMA is blowing smoke. Doesn't mean Ricks will win the fight, just that he hasn't been seriously hurt except in the last point about Petraeus, which he could have used much more intelligently, in perhaps this way:
"It's true that one of the brightest stars of the current military scene, Gen David Petraus, is a West Point graduate." And then continue on as above...
Still, for me the greatest justification for USNA is that, blush, you're here, and I love you, and I love my life here (absolutely no sarcasm), and I look forward to seeing you in class tomorrow.
;-) and R/
Prof Fleming
Re the magazine rankings, which Professor Fleming so ably disassembles, I keep on thinking of something that Marine Commandant Al Gray used to say: Don't look good, be good.
To my cadet readers: I'd be interested in anything that anyone can offer to repudiate his points -- but please keep in mind that this guy has taught thousands of academy students, so it’s time to stow the trash talk about "anecdotal evidence." No more stentorian "I assure you sir" and flag-wrapped appeals sentiment. How about some cold, hard data?
Colonel Hilferty, feel free to pitch in here, too.
DON EMMERT/AFP/Getty Images
Having read Craig Mullaney's book, including the detailed discussions about USMA, Ranger training, infantry training, and overseas education, I would be interested in his comments on the subject of military education in general and the USMA/USNA topic specifically. Any chance of contacting him and engaging him in the conversation?
That's a great email. On the point about disillusioned mids and cadets in particular, he's dead on. I ended up turning down a USNA appointment (after having spent about ages 11-18 dreaming of it) after spending one last weekend visitation there, my third of the process, and hearing one angry strung-out mid after another talk trash about the Academy and their experiences. Since then I've heard very little from my friends who went to the academies say anything different. Idealism isn't something that lasts long in Bancroft or the WP barracks, apparently.
Here's a class profile for USNA's Class of 2012 (see page 3 for the stats):
http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/documents/2008_PlebeProfile_ClassOf2012_0725.pdf
I can see how Professor Fleming could break down the numbers to a 2:1 application to acceptance ratio, because that would seem to match the "Nominees qualified scholastically, medically and in physical aptitude" to the number of admitted students. But I don't think this ratio reflects the extensive process to get a candidate's package in front of the Admissions Board for acceptance.
The application process today (see http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/steps.htm) is similar to what I recall from my own experience 23 years ago. It begins with a pre-candidate questionnaire. When that's fully completed and submitted, an applicant becomes a candidate for admission. From this point the candidate must obtain an official nomination, and about 2 in 7 candidates actually receive a nomination. Nominees must pass a physical exam and physical aptitude test prior to admission. Once a nominee has completed these steps, the nominee becomes "qualified scholastically, medically and in physical aptitude." I do not believe a candidate's package goes before the Admissions Board until this process is complete.
This process is far more extensive than any of the other college applications I submitted (including Ivy League schools) and also took far longer to complete due to the official nomination process. My other college applications only required the first step in this application process, so I would hold that the roughly 10:1 ratio is still accurate.
Tom,
I (“the USMA guy”) am unworthy to respond—I am merely a “flak” with a masters (in English Literature) who was one of those miserable uneducated USMA instructors in the mid-90s :)
In defense of my wretched on-line response, I was limited by washingtonpost.com to 1500 characters, so I had to edit out some really incredible arguments that would have overwhelmed all opposition.
And I am loath to get in an argument with Prof. Fleming as he has had 2 decades of criticizing his employer in which to build up his anti-academy thesis.
But let me make one point in defense of our cadets. I don’t believe they are “passive-aggressive disillusioned corner-cutters who largely stalk our halls and sit in our classrooms grousing about some chickenshit thing that's got on their nerves in the Hall.” I agree instead with someone who truly has “no dog in this fight”: David Lipsky, a journalist who, under protest, was assigned by Rolling Stone magazine to write an article on West Point, and ended up staying 4 years and writing “Absolutely American: Four Years at West Point.”
“And of all the young people I’d met, the West Point cadets—although grand, epic complainers—were the happiest.” Preface, xii
“It was at this time that the Army and the Academy dawned on me, and I saw what it meant to live as a group, to share experiences, and to have that sense that other people were honestly looking out for you. And I have to say, that looked pretty good to me too.” Preface xii
“Of all the places I’ve been in America, including the thirty-five or so colleges I’ve visited as a reporter, West Point strikes me as the most successfully integrated, the least afflicted by racial tensions. And it seems that way to most cadets as well.” 193
Lastly, here is the final paragraph of the 1997 Congressional Research Service report “The DoD Service Academies: Issues for Congress.”
“Finally, the real issue may not be what would be a cost- and symbolically-effective officer commissioning system if it were designed from scratch. Rather, it is whether the benefits to be obtained from getting rid of the academies in the context of the current officer procurement system would outweigh the massive tangible and intangible effects of abolishing them. The onus of demonstrating the worth of such a radical change—and an alternative paradigm for precommissioning education—may, therefore lie with its proponents, rather than requiring defenders of the status quo to justify the existing situation.”
Bryan
Sorry, one more thing. The USNA guy writes that “At Haverford, where I went, there are no graduate students, and hence no TAs. All students are taught by professors with PhDs.” I did some extensive research (60 seconds on the internet) and it turns out that, in the English department alone, many Haverford professors have not PhDs, but pathetic M.F.A. and M.A.s.
When the federal budget is ?, and the defense budget is?, the amount of money it costs to educate a cadet is relatively irrelevant. What DOES matter, though, are things like civil-military relations, success in the Army/Corps/Fleet, etc. Those are the cost-benefit equations that ought to be considered.
many Haverford professors have not PhDs, but pathetic M.F.A. and M.A.s."
The issue isn't necessarily the degree per se, but whether it is the terminal degree in the field. In most traditional academic disciplines, the terminal degree is the PhD - you can do post-docs or what not, but you can't get a higher degree than a PhD. For some disciplines or some subdisciplines, including (perhaps especially) those in the arts, an MFA is the terminal degree. Haverford shouldn't be cricized on this score.
You are beating the wrong horse
It seems to me that you are attacking the wrong subject in your examination of the service academies. More here.
The problem with whether the Academies have value is not with their academics. They compete just fine on that score. There are plenty of surveys that point out that the academies are equivalent to any major university in America in terms of academic excellence.
Does that not mean there is not room for improvement ? No. If I were king of the world the academies find a “core” curriculum and then build their major programs around that. As a suggestion I could think of nothing better than at least two years of college English -because all officers need to know how to write- mandatory four years of language education, a course in the history of Western Civilization and a course in Military History.
But to the question of value-its not about academics that academies are falling down on. Its about the drip by drip dissolution of the military system at the academies-that should form the basis for the argument you make. Given the amount they have diluted their military systems-especially their plebe systems-are they really worth the expense any more? Can we even still call them academies any more? Or are they just universities where every one dresses the same?
The compromises that the service academies have had to make in their military systems over the last 33 years are well documented. Martin Van Creveld has documented these compromises that have occurred over time-in a very fine manner.
That's what you should be complaining about.
Skippy-San,
The United States Air Force Academy has the following core curriculum:
biology
chemistry
computer science
mathematics
physics
aeronautical engineering
astronautical engineering
civil engineering
electrical engineering
engineering mechanics
behavioral sciences
economics
law
management
political science
English
foreign languages
history
philosophy
There are actually three years of English, the third being a war literature and speech class. Foreign languages are encouraged, but not mandatory past one year for technical majors. There are two mandatory history classes, and two mandatory military strategic studies classes. Looks like you don't have to become king of the world yet.
You mention watering down "pleeb" year. We don't haze our people any more, if that's what you mean. Today's military is not a place where doing it the way it was "Back when it was hard" is going to help. We are continually trying to adopt ourselves to the changing military culture.
As for the general points made by other people on ROTC, some good points, some bad. There seems to be the mistaken assumption that ROTC cadets don't suffer from community college level education, cynacism, or disillusionment at all. I know many cadets who have gone into ROTC and have noticed many differences. ROTC definitely has its own problems.
http://www.intelligencecareers.com/news/index_viewarticle.cfm?current_article=584: states that 20.42% of officers in the AF come from the Air Force Academy. Take us away, and lose a major commissioning source in a time where we need leaders.
Thank you for proving my point.
Today's military is not a place where doing it the way it was "Back when it was hard" is going to help. We are continually trying to adopt ourselves to the changing military culture.
That's exactly the problem-the USAFA and the other Academies are plagued by the same ills that plague the military in general-too much social engineering, too much effort to appease the diversity bullies, and not enough focus on doing what it takes to ensure combat readiness. I submit to you that if the USAFA had actually had a strong class system and enforced rules against fraternization, it would have avoided a lot of the ills that happened to it at the beginning of the decade. Which, incidentally, got its Commandant fired as I recall.
I'm not talking about hazing. I was not hazed during what was a very tough plebe year at The Citadel. I turned down a chance to attend USNA to go there-and its a decision I never regretted. The plebe system is the basis on which strong bonds are built and the process begins to build up cadets into a group with a shared experience and values.
I spent 29 years on active duty in the US Navy. Most of my experience was with the Navy, however I did have USAF exchange officers who worked for me and I also spent a fair amount of time doing joint operations with USAF guys. I am more familiar with the Navy program which puts way too much emphasis on engineering and not enough on the basics. The result is way too many junior officers who are technically proficient operators, but lack the ability to write well or communicate well up the chain of command on behalf of their Sailors. Don't take my word for it- there are plenty of other CO's who would agree with me.
I find it hard to believe a USAFA cadet takes all of those courses and still completes a major too-want to steer me to a college guide so I can see for myself?
http://www.usafa.af.mil/index.cfm?catname=Dean%20of%20Faculty
Now, we do get a major, but we only really spend our junior and senior year specializing in them. (I hear that this is the case in several universities)
I also like your point that there is "too much effort to appease the diversity bullies, and not enough focus on doing what it takes to ensure combat readiness." We see that at times here, and it's refreshing to know that it's not just a fishbowl perspective.
I concede your point that USAFA had difficulty with frat (and other things) at some points, but with the current organization that problem has been greatly diminished. We've incorporated programs such as Commandant's Challenge, Recognition, Global Engagement, and Combat Survival Training to address the combat readiness issues. We also send cadets to FOBs in the Middle East during the summer to witness deployed operations first hand. There is also a PEER program in place that is nationally recognized that provides valuable opportunities for those interested to learn how to help and support their peers and subordinates in times of stress.
The pride you felt your pleeb year is not lost. We try our hardest to give our place here a sense of meaning; doolie year here is our first chance at that. We are constrained by what superiors deem appropriate; but that will be a fact that governs our entire careers. The fact that we adjust to changing military culture is not necessarily a concession to political correctness,though. Our programs have altered, and become more and more "operations oriented." To say that we're bold and brassy like cadets and midshipmen were purported to be of old would be a huge stretch. But we do what we can with what we're given.
The military academies provide valuable opportunities for the less economically advantaged. The experiences that they provide are truly one of a kind: for those who can seize what they have, they come out of the academies as remarkable officers. Those that don't care, don't. This is a universal truth. CLosing us down and giving more to ROTC will not fix or change this.
I'd highly recommend the sleep enforcement idea; except after 3.5 hours of sleep, I would recommend the researcher take any USMA cadet into Arvin Gymnasium and see how long the researcher and cadet last in the 20 ft. squared ring. . .my somewhat educated and experienced opinion would suggest that after about 2 minutes, the researcher would find that the cadet had more than enough sleep to mop the floor with him. . .Go ARMY Boxing!!!
I agree on the sleep issue. A USAFA boxer could do it on 2.5 hours of sleep, though...
Tom, we have been comparing and contrasting military academy cadets, ROTC cadets, and civilian undergraduates for the past seven years. Our focus is not who is best, but rather how are generations of people oriented toward civil and military issues based on their institution affiliation. Our objectives are to 1) improve teaching and learning; 2) flag incongruence btw military academy cadets, ROTC cadets, and their civilian college counterparts; 3) provide a state–of-the-times database for cadets, officers in graduate school, and military academy and other faculty; and 3) provide timely and rich policy-related data and research to inform ROTC programs, college faculty and administrators, and military academy teachers, administrators, and military leaders. We've published a few focused studies with more in progress. Below are some references--all are empirically based--hard data--for anyone interested:
Journal Articles:
Matthews, Michael D., Morten G. Ender, Janice Laurence, and David E. Rohall. (2009). “Role of group affiliation and gender attitudes toward women in the military,” Military Psychology, 21(2):241-251.
Rohall, David E., Morten G. Ender, and Michael D. Matthews (2006). “The effects of military affiliation, gender, and political ideology on attitudes toward the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.” Armed Forces & Society, 33(1):59-77.
Book Chapters:
Ender, Morten G., David E. Rohall, and Michael D. Matthews (forthcoming). “College Student Reactions to 9/11: Civilian, ROTC, and Military Academy Undergraduates,” in M. Morgan (ed.). The Day that Changed Everything?: An Interdisciplinary Series of Edited Volumes on the Impact of 9/11 (Vol V: 9/11 in Psychology and Education) (Palgrave-Macmillan) Info available at: http://www.ademocracyisborn.com/911/impactof9-11.html.
Ender, Morten G., David E. Rohall, and Michael D. Matthews (2009). “Thinking Globally: U.S. Cadet and Civilian Undergraduate Attitudes toward Social Problems,” in Gerhard Kummel, Guiseppe Caforio, and Christopher Dandeker (eds.). Armed Forces, Soldiers and Civil-Military Relations: Essays in Honor of Jurgen Kuhlmann, pp. 191-210 (Weisbaden, Germany: Schriftenreihe des Sozialwissenschaftlichen Instituts der Bundeswehr).
morten
Thanks for this. It is a solid foundation.
I am about to board a flight to Florida and will begin reading several hundred pages of West Point surveys of battalion commanders' opinions of West Point grads. I'll post on this after I get through it all.
Do you cite these surveys in your work?
Tom, I am fairly familiar with the BN CO studies. One of my colleagues here spearheads them. They are excellent resources--one of many--that allow us to assess whether West Point's breadth in the core curriculum and depth in the majors programs jives with the needs of the Army. Keep in mind the BN CO studies allow us to compare our LTs by what they majored in at West Point. In other words, are we meeting the mission? No comparisons to ROTC though. Many of the faculty here read that work closely and it has certainly informed my teaching. I'm confident to say my cadets majoring in sociology exceed the bar as LTs. Something we've recently published about specifically:
Ender, Morten G., Ryan Kelty, and Irving Smith. (2008). “Sociology at West Point.” Armed Forces & Society, 35(1):49-70.
and more generally:
Segal, David R. and Morten G. Ender. (2008). “Sociology in military officer education.” Armed Forces & Society, 35(1):3-15.
Most the findings in the BN CO studies might not appear particularly surprising--however, one finding often jumps out. I'll wait to see if you discover it...morten
Can we please stop with the stupdity?
People please, there is no way to calculate the cost of a cadet or mid vs. ROTC or OCS. There are way too many facotrs to account for. With ROTC you have to ask which school, which brings up the arguements of tuition price payed for by rotc, financial assiatance, living expenses, taxs, labs, major, quality of education, etc,etc. And if you ask about OCS, you have to ask how long they have been in the service, what their MOS(job) was before going to OCS, during service where they were stationed, etc, etc. Do you get the picture? The academy, ROTC and OCS also would have to calculate the small expenses like how much toilet paper they used, how many times they flushed, etc. Unless you followed someone aroung with a little book marking down how much they spent on every little thing, including how much it cost to have the lights on when they walk down the hall, then you can't compare the education vs the price. Also you have to ask what service these people are in and what they will do in the future. Ok so it might cost more to train a cadet who is going to be an infantry officer and stay in for 20 years than it will some air force yahoo who will graduate in the bottom of his class and be paid off to not do his service becuase there are too man 2nd lts in the air force(yes it happens!). Seen it happen! So cut the crap its not possible to compare the 3 commissioning sources, plus west point, annapolis, colorado springs, kings point(merchant marine academy) or new london(Coast guard academy). LOGICAL ARGUMENTS PEOPLE!
Mr. Ricks, you reviewed Craig Mullaney's book. He is an easy guy to get a hold of, generally. Why don't you solicit his opinion and throw that into the fray? As a guy who has been to both West Point and Oxford, surely his is an opinion you can respect.
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